Wax over lacquer???

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DaveO

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DaveO
I am finishing up those 4 heart boxes that I made last weekend. I have applied many coats of satin spray lacquer, rubbing out between every 2 with 800 grit paper. I have always enjoyed the feel of a wax finish, and am considering it for the final step. But I am worried that the wax with affect the satin finish, or won't work well with the lacquer in general. Any thoughts???
Also when rubbing out a lacquer finish to you rub out the last coat or leave it as it is, I am going for a satin, low gloss look. Thanks for any advice ya'll can offer. Dave:)
 

Big Mike

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Mike
Ever buffed your pieces out on the Beall system? If you really want a gloss, slick, smooth as a baby's butt finish go with the Beall system. Leave out the white diamond wheel on dark woods. It is hard to get out of the pores if it gets in. If not the Beall system, then putting on a coat of Renaissance wax and buffing that out is hard to beat. I have an 1800 rpm buffer and I start by buffing the piece with a clean felt wheel. Then I apply the wax as evenly as possible. Then I buff it with a wax buff and follow that with a soft flannel buff. You can get a mighty nice finish...see your face in it.....:lol:


Oh, I don't know anything about using lacquer as I have never used it. So do not apply any of the above without testing first. Disclaimer has been provided so take heed.:-?
 

Phillip

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Phillip Fuentes
daveo, you can definitely use wax over lacquer. i like renaissance wax as well, though right now i can only buff with a cloth. as for rubbing out lacquer, you can rub out the last coat if the sheen is not what you want. if i'm using finishes that come in varying sheens i always choose gloss. gloss versions of any finish are the most "pure", different additives called flatting agents cause the differing sheens, flat, semi-, etc. so with anything but gloss you're paying for additives and not finish. on the last coat you can rub out with nylon pads and wax or pumice or rottenstone to achieve the degree of satin you want. gloss finishes also seem to build faster (for me anyways) too. can't wait to see the finished product.

phillip
 

DaveO

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DaveO
Mike, I don't have the Beall system, but I have heard that it can do amazing things. I don't really know exactly what it is. I do have a cotton buffing wheel attached to a old motor, that my wife's grandfather set up to buff his turnings. It works well and I will probably use it on these boxes, beats elbow power especially when you got 4 to do. Dave:)
 

Big Mike

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Mike
A single motor with a shaft will work just fine for this technique. I bought my wheels and compounds from Klingspor.

The "Beall" system consists of 3 different wheels and 3 different buffs.

First is an all linen tripoli wheel, the coarsest of the 3 and is used with tripoli compound to remove fine scratches and imperfections in the finish. i have a spare one of these wheels that I use "dry" sometimes to do the same thing on an oil finish to great effect.

Second is a flannel-linen wheel that is supposed to be used with diamond compound. This refines the finish to perfection and prepares it for wax. But the diamond compound is white and can get in wood pores and be impossible to remove. I don't use it on any dark woods anymore.:oops: You can guess why....

And third is the all-flannel wheel of which I also keep a spare. This is used for applying and buffing out carnauba wax and will give you a blinding shine. The finish underneath must be flawless, thus all the preparatory steps, or defects will show. Sometimes I will just use the flannel buff by itself and heat up a finish to get a wonderfully smooth polished sheen without the high gloss. I am fortunate in that I have a 30" wide Baldor buffer for my buffing operations that is powerful and provides plenty of room for buffing even large projects.

Be aware that if you hit the buffing wheel at an odd angle or on the corner of your project it can snatch it out of your hand and hurl it to the floor or against a wall. I have seen many hours of labor ruined in a millisecond of carelessness.

I have friends who swear by the Beall system when buffing out lacquer on their turned hollowforms. I will put a picture of one I received from a friend for my birthday. It is to die for.....

Hope this helps. Don't pass out at the cost of these high quality buffing wheels. They are $15 or more each not including the compounds.
 

DaveO

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DaveO
Thanks Mike, I was picturing some sort of handheld unit that had a half spherical buffing head on it, in various grades of coarseness. That does sound like a system that I could employe in my shop with my current buffer set-up. $60-70 doesn't sound too bad, compared to the equipment I thought it would take. And I've seen the results, they are worth the money. Dave:)
 

jglord

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John
I agree with Phillip's comment about using gloss finishes but maybe for a different reason. It is true, pure finish is gloss and is flattened with various agents to take out the shine.
You can achieve great results by building with gloss finish to get a clear build and then add a layer of satin, semi-gloss, etc. My thinking is to achieve a deep finish, you do not want a build of finish with flattening agents through-out. By building with gloss, you get clear build layers, allowing a clear view through the finish to the wood. Flattening agents can be used in the finish coat or coats to provide the satin sheen desired. In other words, you probably don't want to blur the wood character by putting multiple layers of finish with flattening agents. Building with gloss and then flattening helps preserve a clear view of the wood with a non-gloss sheen.
I wonder if waxing or buffing over de-glossed finish can provide a beautiful smooth finish, but if the desired result is a non-gloss finish, polishing the finish may counter some of the desired effect.
 

Phillip

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Phillip Fuentes
i think jglord and i are pretty much in agreement, just using differing methods at the end. i usually don't have anything but gloss finishes, so i use wax and a fine abrasive to adjust the sheen. using a semigloss or satin topcoat is also a great way to get your desired results. as for the final polishing, using carnauba or candelilla wax and a high speed buffer can result in a gloss finish, but using beeswax or mixing beeswax with one of the above, will give a softer finish (both in sheen and durability).

phillip
 

Phil

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Phil Capper
Bri Wax is great. available in many colors. used by many antique restorers for a finish that looks authentic
 
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