Should Cedar wood be stained, treated or finished? For a Cedar Chest!

[MrAudio815]

Hey everyone and experts,:gar-Bi

I will be making a Cedar Chest and have read somewhere that it is not good to stain, treat, or add any chemicals to Cedar wood on the inside due to the fact that the clothes and lid will stick? But how about the outside of the chest? Yes I will be using all Cedar inside and out. Well it will one solid piece of wood and of course it will show on the insdie and on the outside:rotflm:. Thats what the lady wants.:dontknow:

Any thoughts, suggestions? Oh and I told her to keep the cost down I was planning on using MDF for the inside bottom, which you wont be able to see of course.:eusa_pray:roll:


Thanks guys and gals,


Matthew & Rachel
Custom Home Audio
M&R Audio

 

[CarvedTones]

I guess I am everyone; maybe the experts will be along later...

The clothes and lid won't stick if you finish the inside, but aromatic cedar (which is what you use for cedar chests; not the WRC the Borgs carry) has a natural bug repellent property that will be diminished if you finish it.

It's striking, IMO.

so I wouldn't stain it.

Finish? Prolly liquid explosives, but I don't use that nasty stuff so I will let the experts help you. I would use Tung Oil.

 

[CarvedTones]

Oh yeah, I would not use MDF. I have never seen a "real" cedar chest that wasn't either solid cedar or else had the interior completely lined with thin cedar. They sell cedar in thin T&G for that purpose.

 

[JRD]

OK, I'll bite.

What's the difference between aromatic cedar and any other kind, WRC, ERC?

Is aromatic a different species?

Jim

 

[rbdoby]

Red cedar is soft and brittle. Be careful cutting your joints, especially dovetails. Do not finish the inside of the chest. That will stop the natural oils in the wood from acting as a natural bug repellant.

I've made several pieces from red cedar and my favorite finish is tung oil. It brings out the grain and is easy to repair.

Rick Doby

 

[rbdoby]

Matthew,

I forgot to add that you do not need to stain red cedar.

Rick Doby

 

[CarvedTones]

OK, I'll bite.

What's the difference between aromatic cedar and any other kind, WRC, ERC?

Is aromatic a different species?

Jim

Aromatic = ERC. Yes, it is very different from WRC with respect to the bug repellent properties and it tends to be flamey red instead of subtle brown red like WRC.

A "cedar chest" is not a generic term like "maple table"; they are often heirlooms passed down for generations that women keep their fine foldable clothes in. Probably keeping wedding dresses for their daughters was the top use. Some old ones have to be lined with fresh cedar to get the properties back. they also sell bags of shaving and cedar balls. Anyway, a cedar chest is usually about the size and shape of a foot locker and always made of aromatic cedar.

 

[MrAudio815]

Red cedar is soft and brittle. Be careful cutting your joints, especially dovetails. Do not finish the inside of the chest. That will stop the natural oils in the wood from acting as a natural bug repellant.

I've made several pieces from red cedar and my favorite finish is tung oil. It brings out the grain and is easy to repair.

Rick Doby

Ok you said to use Tung oil on the outside and then you told me not to stain it? What's the difference between applying tung oil to the outside and staining?

And this is for a Lady's 14 year old daughter that wants a lock on it and uses it like a foot locker, she wants it when she goes to college and is putting things in it now that she will use then. The lady also said she only wants to pay between $200 and $250 dollars. That would be cutting it pretty close and leaving me no profit. I would like to make a least $2 to $3 dollars:rotflm:

She wants it 43"w X 18"d X 22" H
I have already bought $84 dollars worth of Cedar and will still need to buy the hinges, ETC.

So how about that MDF?:gar-Bi?


Matthew

 

[MrAudio815]

Oh yeah, I would not use MDF. I have never seen a "real" cedar chest that wasn't either solid cedar or else had the interior completely lined with thin cedar. They sell cedar in thin T&G for that purpose.

The so called Cedar chest that she bought for $300 a few year ago was veneered oak on the outside and veneered Cedar on the inside and the hinges that are supposed to make sure the lid doesn't slam broke the wood on both side and revealed cheap particle board. She was mad and now want's me to make here a better one. I was thinking MDF on the bottom would make it strong for a college girl and wouldn't be seen from the outside, only from the inside on the bottom? What do you think??:dontknow::icon_scra:eusa_thin


Thanks for the info so far, I learn something new everyday from you guys.


Sincerely,

Matthew
Custom Home Audio
M&R Audio

 

[sapwood]

Matthew,
I've done a few small ERC and maple boxes, so here's my $.002 on the finish.

This one was finished with Danish Oil. The pix is over two years old. Note the yellow, dull finish. Well, it's darker and more yellow now :tinysmile_cry_t:

This one was finished with BLO and blonde shellac. A year later it a wee bit duller, but otherwise OK.

Shellac lacks high durability and isn't as tough (water resistant) as other finishes, but reapplying is extremely easy.

Roger

 

[Mike Davis]

The lady also said she only wants to pay between $200 and $250 dollars. That would be cutting it pretty close and leaving me no profit.

Matthew

This is so typical of today's consumer. They are mad that the piece of junk particle board chest that they bought for $300 fell apart, but they want you to make a solid wood chest for $200.

They can't see that your hand made, solid wood chest is worth at least $600?

And you are willing to please them at a loss. Why? :no:

 

[CarvedTones]

The so called Cedar chest that she bought for $300 a few year ago was veneered oak on the outside and veneered Cedar on the inside and the hinges that are supposed to make sure the lid doesn't slam broke the wood on both side and revealed cheap particle board. She was mad and now want's me to make here a better one. I was thinking MDF on the bottom would make it strong for a college girl and wouldn't be seen from the outside, only from the inside on the bottom? What do you think??:dontknow::icon_scra:eusa_thin

Just my opinion, worth every nickel...

I would not use MDF. If the price is too low, tell her. I would consider a compatible cheaper solid wood, but not MDF. It's just not a "real" cedar chest. Again, this is just my opinion.

 

[DaveO]

Not a Cedar chest per se, but it is a Cedar box and the concept is very close

I finished the outside of the box with Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish, and left the inside natural and unfinished. Tung Oil is a good wood colorant, but a poor wood protector/finish. Danish Oil will give you the same effect as the Waterlox, but less protection. I have found that a few projects I have finished with Danish Oil have really dulled over time.
It is never a good idea to use any sort of oil based finish on the inside of any enclosed space. It will take forever for the oil to gas-off and anything you put in there will smell like it. If I finish the inside or any box, chest or cabinet I use shellac.
I would consider veneering the MDF with Cedar, to keep the look consistent. Or just glue up a solid Cedar bottom.
Dave

 

[McRabbet]

I have a very simple approach that I follow with my clients. I ask them what they want and show them a design to meet that requirement and let them know the cost. I will adjust the design if it didn't meet their requirement (and the cost with it), but If they decide it is too much, I will not compromise either quality or a reasonable rate for my time. I've lost money on only one commissioned project -- my first one.

As far as materials for your cedar chest, I would stick with solid wood and avoid MDF. DaveO's Box shown above is a great prototype for a full sized chest that any customer would be pleased to own.

 

[rbdoby]

Ok you said to use Tung oil on the outside and then you told me not to stain it? What's the difference between applying tung oil to the outside and staining?


To me staining means adding a color to the wood before applying a top coat. Usually you don't need to add color to ERC. You do need to protect the wood with a top coat like tung oil, Danish oil, poly, etc.

Rick Doby

 

[CarvedTones]

Tung Oil is a good wood colorant, but a poor wood protector/finish.

With all due respect, I completely disagree. The slight amber cast may be an issue on some light woods (though I like it), but on something like cedar it would be hard to detect. It is an excellent protector; there are even some high end deck sealants with tung oil as the primary ingredient. It event protects against alcohol (somehow this solvent ends up on furniture a lot :mrgreen. It is more of a satin than gloss, so if that's what you are after you won't be as happy with it (though I have seen a top coat of bees wax and tung buffed out pretty shiny). I use pure tung oil, not the toxic stew that a lot of companies sell as a tung oil finish. Pure does dry slower and your shop will smell like a lot of the time, but it is a safe smell.

 

[Nativespec]

I built one and left in unfinished on the inside and used a wipe on poly on the outside. I had a problem with the top curling up (mine is a bench type and the top is 3/4") and I wish I had finished both sides of the top.

Eastern cedar is a juniper and part of the cypress family and is not that similar to western cedar.

I cannot remember what the tree is called up in the mountains, but the leaves are more like a juniper and not like a pine or spruce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_(disambiguation)

David

 

[Nativespec]

The big ones in the mountains are hemlocks.

David

 

[MrAudio815]

Ok you said to use Tung oil on the outside and then you told me not to stain it? What's the difference between applying tung oil to the outside and staining?


To me staining means adding a color to the wood before applying a top coat. Usually you don't need to add color to ERC. You do need to protect the wood with a top coat like tung oil, Danish oil, poly, etc.

Rick Doby

oh Duh, I get it now, Man I feel Dumb! :wconfused: :rotflm:

So what about using Boiled linseed oil mixed with Minereal spirits and applying it to the outside of the Cedar Chest?

Oh and update.... I told the lady that it would cost closer to $400 dollars for her cedar chest and she wrote back and asked if I could fix the old one. I'm not really sure how to fix a piece of crap! I mean it has oak veneer on the outside and Cedar veneer on the inside. I would have to be one lucky man to get an exact match on the first order of veneer. I wrote back and sort of told her YES and NO. Yes I can and it will look like crap and NO if you want it to look the same.:no: :eusa_thin :nah:
And I also figured out what I have spent so far on the wood and using her old lock and hinges and told her it would cost $275 for a 42" wide X22" tall X20" deep. I have to use the cedar, I have no use for it at the time and would rather get something than get stuck with wood I don't need at the time. Well I still look forward to hearing from you!


Matthew
Custom Home Audio
M&R Audio
Not Custom Home Cedar Chest!!!:rotflm:

 

[MrAudio815]

Not a Cedar chest per se, but it is a Cedar box and the concept is very close

I finished the outside of the box with Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish, and left the inside natural and unfinished. Tung Oil is a good wood colorant, but a poor wood protector/finish. Danish Oil will give you the same effect as the Waterlox, but less protection. I have found that a few projects I have finished with Danish Oil have really dulled over time.
It is never a good idea to use any sort of oil based finish on the inside of any enclosed space. It will take forever for the oil to gas-off and anything you put in there will smell like it. If I finish the inside or any box, chest or cabinet I use shellac.
I would consider veneering the MDF with Cedar, to keep the look consistent. Or just glue up a solid Cedar bottom.
Dave

Dave that sure is one gorgeous Box right there! Great Job...:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap


Sincerely,

Matthew
Custom Home Audio
M&R Audio

Update on cedar chest next page!