Walnut potential group buy?

[CrealBilly]

The guy we are buying from doesn't care how we measure it. He is getting a set price for the entire lot. As long as we are consistent and don't underestimate so badly that we run out of wood before everyone gets their share, we should be ok. Running out early is our single biggest risk.

I done a few lumber runs in my life for the NCWWer. I already know you all are fair folks... its gonna be a great time, always is when a bunch of NCWWer get together over a pile of lumber. Be sure and show off your shop scars. I think i may have had the best one when i showed up with a big ole pile of walnut and missing the tip of my pointer finger

 

[vinson]

Let's see if we can get one more member and then agree a date to go check this out.

I will bet that this is good wood and I have enjoyed the dialog but would not be involved for anything. Where am I in line? Where is my measuring device? You got good stuff, not me! The seller is in the cat bird seat and should be. He will enjoy the show I am sure. As usual "creall" has a lot of advice for afar (coming up on 10,000).

vinson

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

I will bet that this is good wood and I have enjoyed the dialog but would not be involved for anything. Where am I in line? Where is my measuring device? You got good stuff, not me! The seller is in the cat bird seat and should be. He will enjoy the show I am sure. As usual "creall" has a lot of advice for afar (coming up on 10,000).

vinson

I have no idea what any of this means....

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

PM has been sent with the address. See everyone on Saturday at 9:30 AM.

 

[ste6168]

Running out early is our single biggest risk.

I don't think that running out early should be much of a concern, everyone needs to understand they are buying a percentage of the total, not necessarily the exact measurement they requested. If there is more than 1700BF, great, everyone gets a couple extra feet. If there is less than 1700, then the total each person gets is a percentage on what they requested based on 1700BF. So, instead of saying you are buying XXX BF, you are buying this percentage of the total BF in the lot. I threw a quick calculator together in excel, that should resolve this issue. I will have my computer with me, should we need to do any quick adjustments.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

I don't think that running out early should be much of a concern, everyone needs to understand they are buying a percentage of the total, not necessarily the exact measurement they requested. If there is more than 1700BF, great, everyone gets a couple extra feet. If there is less than 1700, then the total each person gets is a percentage on what they requested based on 1700BF. So, instead of saying you are buying XXX BF, you are buying this percentage of the total BF in the lot. I threw a quick calculator together in excel, that should resolve this issue. I will have my computer with me, should we need to do any quick adjustments.

The calculation is the easy part. The execution is where things get tricky. What do we do if we get the end of the pile and realize that there isn't enough? I see two options:

1) We redistribute lumber from people that have too large a share to those that have too small a share so everyone gets the correct share. This seems to be the approach outlined in your spreadsheet. How do we choose which boards are redistributed? That also means people need to stay until the last guy gets his wood in case any redistribution is needed.


2) We "buy out" the guys who didn't get any lumber. We are collecting $126 extra, so we can handle a 100 BF shortage on the financial side. That last guy won't be happy to get his money back and no lumber though. If the shortage is greater than 100 BF, then the people who have wood would need to pony up more cash to "buy out" the guys who didn't get any wood. This approach is the simplest, but also leads to unhappy people. Probably not a good route.


All of my interactions with NCWW members have always been very friendly. I usually see overwhelming generosity instead of people arguing about how they think they got the short end of the stick. I don't expect we will have any real issues with each other regardless of what obstacles we will face. I just want to avoid people getting blind-sided by discussing these things in advance. Hopefully our issue is what to do with the excess wood. (we can hope anyway).

 

[ste6168]

The calculation is the easy part. The execution is where things get tricky. What do we do if we get the end of the pile and realize that there isn't enough? I see two options:

1) We redistribute lumber from people that have too large a share to those that have too small a share so everyone gets the correct share. This seems to be the approach outlined in your spreadsheet. How do we choose which boards are redistributed? That also means people need to stay until the last guy gets his wood in case any redistribution is needed.


2) We "buy out" the guys who didn't get any lumber. We are collecting $126 extra, so we can handle a 100 BF shortage on the financial side. That last guy won't be happy to get his money back and no lumber though. If the shortage is greater than 100 BF, then the people who have wood would need to pony up more cash to "buy out" the guys who didn't get any wood. This approach is the simplest, but also leads to unhappy people. Probably not a good route.


All of my interactions with NCWW members have always been very friendly. I usually see overwhelming generosity instead of people arguing about how they think they got the short end of the stick. I don't expect we will have any real issues with each other regardless of what obstacles we will face. I just want to avoid people getting blind-sided by discussing these things in advance. Hopefully our issue is what to do with the excess wood. (we can hope anyway).

IMO, there isn't anyway you can buy-out the last guy. Its not just the money you put in, but the gas to get there and the time allotted. There are only 10 people involved, I think it is only right for everyone to stay, until everyone has their share. It shouldn't take more than a couple hours (max), with 10 guys, to get this done.

To select the wood, if it came to that, the "short guy" or the last man, chooses one board from the top layer of each guys stack to make up any difference (you can "reserve" on board, if wanted), and extra is then redistributed from that stack.

How are we choosing the order? Drawing straws, putting our names in a hat, order of arrival, etc? I myself, am also hoping to have to figure out what to do with extra

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

IMO, there isn't anyway you can buy-out the last guy. Its not just the money you put in, but the gas to get there and the time allotted. There are only 10 people involved, I think it is only right for everyone to stay, until everyone has their share. It shouldn't take more than a couple hours (max), with 10 guys, to get this done.

To select the wood, if it came to that, the "short guy" or the last man, chooses one board from the top layer of each guys stack to make up any difference (you can "reserve" on board, if wanted), and extra is then redistributed from that stack.

How are we choosing the order? Drawing straws, putting our names in a hat, order of arrival, etc? I myself, am also hoping to have to figure out what to do with extra

I agree that "buying out" is a bad option. Lets throw that option out. Your method seems good to me. I say we draw names from a hat to dictate order. I like random processes for things like this.

 

[LeftyTom]

I am OK with drawing names for order of divvying the wood, or order of arrival (unless there is a mass ingress).

 

[ste6168]

So, just to summarize, here is what we have for tomorrow. Jeremy or anyone have issues proceeding as outlined below? I agree with Jeremy, and don't foresee there being any issues with this group (even though i've never really met any of you), but just in case, we can fall back to what is written.

Order of distribution based on names in hat.​

When you’re up, you get boards off the top of the stacks (working front to back on the stacks, or vice-versa, depending on ease of access) until your allotted total is met. Someone will keep a running tally of total BF.
​

You may decline and replace ONE board from your stack at this time, if you wish.​

Boards get stacked directly into the bed of truck/trailer to aid in the next part, should it be needed.​

In the event of a shortage :thumbs_do- Actual BF is added up and the last guy chooses one (or however much is needed to make up his allotted BF - Equal number of boards per stack) pieces of lumber from the top row of each of the other (9) stacks.​

Similar to declining one board, you can “reserve” one board from being pulled back to the group, if you wish.

New BF allocations are calculated based on your initial percentage of 1700BF ordered (can use the excel spreadsheet to make this quick). Also need to recalculate the BF in the trucks now that each stack is missing a board (or 2)

The last guy chooses his (new) allotted BF from that stack.

In order of initial distribution, the remainder of the wood in that stack is then allotted back to the group until they reach their new BF number.

In the event of an overage :thumbs_up- Boards are split up based on the percentage of 1700 BF that was initially asked for.​

ie: If you asked for 150 BF, and there is 100BF extra, you would get an additional 9BF. If you asked for 200BF, and there is 150BF extra, you would get an additional 17.5BF.​

 

[KenOfCary]

Let's just skip the parts about rejecting or reserving any lumber. This is a wholesale sale not retail. You get what you get in the order you get it.

I will be taking total of 500 bf for myself and two others. I don't have time to be choosy for myself and let alone not for them. They will get what I get.

If there are only a few boards short of 1700 then I'll give some of my 200 to whoever is shorted. I don't expect it to happen.

I sure hope we're not planning on measuring every board - do rough bf calculations. Wholesale, not retail. I don't want to spend all day with this project.

 

[thsb]

i am with Ken, would rather be short a few bf than spend all day figuring out what is perfectly fair. i was hoping to be in and out of there in an hour. other's might have a different take.

using a metaphor from an earlier thread, i still have my manhood but it is on a relatively short leash.....have to get my son from a tournament by noon and it is an hour away.

 

[KenOfCary]

Frankly, if you want to reject a board, take it home with you and put it in the fireplace next winter.

If you want to 'reserve' one of my boards... Well those are fightin' words.

That stuff just won't work.

If I have a board somebody can't live without then I'll gladly sell it to them at retail prices of $7-9 / bf... After the wood is divided up, not before.

NO PICKING AND CHOOSING AT A WHOLESALE SALE. PERIOD.

 

[ste6168]

Let's just skip the parts about rejecting or reserving any lumber. This is a wholesale sale not retail. You get what you get in the order you get it.

I will be taking total of 500 bf for myself and two others. I don't have time to be choosy for myself and let alone not for them. They will get what I get.

If there are only a few boards short of 1700 then I'll give some of my 200 to whoever is shorted. I don't expect it to happen.

I sure hope we're not planning on measuring every board - do rough bf calculations. Wholesale, not retail. I don't want to spend all day with this project.

I wholeheartedly agree. My previous post wasn't necessarily my opinion of things, was simply a summary of what I've read thus far, keeping it all in one place, I suppose. I've got about a 4 hour drive there, and then back, so I am not interested in being there all day. I'm willing to take the chance on the quality of lumber, but not willing to risk making the drive, being short, and coming home empty handed, which is why I've chimed in. The holding of the boards was simply an idea to keep it fair in the event we come up short, and it would be you holding or reserving a board which was already allocated to you...

I posted on on the boardfoot thing before, the rough measurement should be more than adequate here. No way do I think every board needs to be measured.

 

[Jeff]

I regret pulling out of this project with a front row seat at the drive-in theatre. You folks will make it work with a smile from all members at the end of the day. :icon_cheers

 

[thsb]

my suggestion although i am not sure this is the correct way to go or if there is enough space to do it. but if we were able to make 17 piles that would be the equivalent of 100 bf in each pile. we have to split a couple of those piles into two which we would call 50 board feet piles. whether they are a little big or a little small, NCWW gets there little bit for being the hub that makes it happen and everyone else gets their '100 bf'. after making the piles we can draw names and people can have 30 seconds to choose their pile.

if we started at 9:30 we could have all the boards separated by 10 and the selection of the boards done by 10:15.

 

[thsb]

alternatively, to make sure NCWW gets their share, we could make 18 piles. We can just call each pile a 'NCWW unit' and each unit is 125.00.

 

[danmart77]

This may be a record long thread!! :icon_cheers

I was thinking the same thing at the lunch bunch in Raleigh. I think this is the longest but there's someone out there that will find a longer one I guess.

Good Luck to all

 

[Phil S]

Ken, I thank you for getting my boards. I am sure I will be pleased with what comes back to Raleigh. In case of a shortage, you have my approval to take up to 50 bdft from my pile.

Please somebody record this on video - it could become a classic

 

[KenOfCary]

Ken, I thank you for getting my boards. I am sure I will be pleased with what comes back to Raleigh. In case of a shortage, you have my approval to take up to 50 bdft from my pile.

Please somebody record this on video - it could become a classic

Thank you Phil for the voice of reason. I also will guarantee at least that much from my share as a contingency for a shortage. That makes 100 bf that we can come up short without anybody suffering. Phil and I have already allocated the funds for each of our 200 bf each and I'll be carrying that to Jeremy tomorrow.

Lets make this happen and quit worrying about the doom and gloom of it coming up short.