Vacuum Veneering

[Bernhard]

Folks,

Is there anyone out there doing vacuum veneering?

Since I have about 50 sqft empty space left in my shop, I thought it needs filling up. I am considering buying and/or cobbling together a vacuum veneering system. I have a couple of continuous duty rough pumps that were salvaged from a mass spectrometer. The vacuum should be good enough to suck the chrome of bumper hitch and more than plenty for veneering.
BUT my veneering experience is a bit dated, used to do it with a hot press about 25 years ago, just have no experience vacuum veneering. I looked
at a couple of commercial vendors (Quality Vak, Joe Woodworker, etc), but I really like to talk to someone with hands-on knowledge/experience.

Any advice, comment, help is appreciated!

Bernhard

 

[Steve D]

Bernard,

I'll be interested in the feedback as well. I built the venturi vacuum pump design from Joewoodworker.com but have only used it for vacuum clamping thus far. I have the materials to make up a bag and plenty of veneer. Now all I need is time. I have found Joe (of Joe woodworker fame) to be very helpful and have dialoged with him via email in the past. I still have as many questions as answers at this point. My only recent experience with veneer has been using a technique from FWW for using Titebond 2 with veneer in an iron on application.

 

[D L Ames]

Bernhard, I have very limited experience so far with using my vacuum bag but it has worked great for me. I have a couple of photos in my gallery that shows the set-up I use. I bought the Vacu-Clamp system that runs off of my compressor and it does a great job and seems to maintain constant vacuum pressure for me. This small system will continue to suit my needs for right now until I get into some bigger projects.

D L

 

[woodguy1975]

I bought a gas continuous duty vacuum pump off www.surpluscenter.com for about $75 and bought a bag off Ebay for $150. The pump runs continuously while clamping takes place for my system. Very simple, effective, and cheap. Eventually I'll make a couple smaller bags for smaller projects, but the system works extremely well. The only down side is the pump runs off 220v which may be a problem for some folks.

Good Luck,

John

 

[Bernhard]

Mike

I would be very interested in any constrcution description/details. I am planning to get a frame press because loading/unloading is much easier. Thought about using aluminum (ie. profiles from 80/20) to keep the weight down. What type of rubber seal did you use? Do you have a source?

Thank you,
Bernhard

 

[dave_the_woodworker]

Some of the very best information on vacuum veneering that I've ever seen was on two videos from Vacuum Pressing Systems, Inc. The titles are 'Working With Veneer' and 'Working In A Vacuum.' The president of the company, Darryl Keil, goes through EVERYTHING you need to know about vacuum veneering. I learned more about it from these tapes than I would have from experimenting on my own for years and years. I highly recommend them. I ordered them directly from the company but I think you can also get them at Woodcraft.

 

[Phillip]

hi guys. darryl keil was one of my instructors at school. i use the smallest veneer press his company sells, and i've used frame presses and regular bag presses as well. a shop vac won't generate the vacuum necessary for veneer pressing, and the time needed for yellow glue to set properly is a long time for a shop vac to be running. i agree that his videos are really helpful, i refer to them constantly. the only thing about frame presses is their height capacity is limited, 12-14" or so. i know there are a few other members on this site who do a lot of vacuum pressing, maybe they'll chime in with some more info.

phillip

 

[zapdafish]

i am putting one together based off of joewoodworker as well. 60$ pump off ebay and all the small doo dads off of the joewoodworker site. it quickly added up tho, ive spent maybe 150 or so dollars on everything else. The system itself is pretty much done as i can charge it before i go to sleep, power it off and there is still a vaccum left when i wake up, I am just putting together a case/carrier for the pump and tanks. its a tad cold out in the garage now tho to start putting together some vinyl bags, the pvc glue prob wont set for me.

next step for me is to insulate the garage and grab a heater

 

[zapdafish]

Phillip

Saw you mention that you went to school? Was it for woodworking? I might be interested in taking something like that. Can you tell me where you went? I took something at NC State that was more of an intro to power tools and the rest of the classes didnt interest me too much

Thnx...Steve

 

[Ozzie-x]

I've been limping along making do with a clamp type press for several years and currently looking into making a vacuum press. I appreciate the wisdom in the replies to this thread. I have a number of large panels to make and I think a vacuum press is essential to success on large panels. I've been readingup on the Joe Woodworker site and it seems to make sense from an engineering standpoint. I guess I'll buy the stuff and cobble it together. If anyone has electrical/wiring questions, drop me a note and I'll try to help since I've been designing building electrical systems for the past 24 years.

 

[Bernhard]

Got the vacuum clamping/veneering video and it is very informative.
I looked at both Qualitity Vak and Vacupress. Both vendors offer flip-top / frame presses. ...and that's what I want. Since I work alone, a bag is too cumbersome to veneer larger and/or multiple pieces. At first, most projects will be flat stock (panels for European style kitchen cabinets and interior doors) I like to be able to veneer a full 8x4 sheet. Right now I really do not want tos pent a $1000 for a frame and a bag. I think I can build something similar what Mike described and using polyurethane film.
Where do you buy your veneer and supplies?

Bernhard

 

[Ozzie-x]

I've been getting most of my veneer off ebay. Good veneer at good prices if you're careful. I've been using regular titebond glue for all of my veneering and it seems to work well, haven't experienced any failures, negative results or mutations. I plan on getting some of the "real" cold press glue when I start vacuum pressing, probably from Joe Woodworker.

I will note that some of the first veneering I did, I tried to use contact cement and there were definite negative results, probably because I use laquer finish. After applying the laquer, I noticed blisters/bubbles forming in the veneer in multiple places. The laquer thinner probably got to the contact cement and made vapors that had nowhere to go, so it bubbled. So I agree with "don't use contact cement with laquer."

Being the skinflint I am, I'll probably just get the film and make my bags and make the frame and plattens out of plywood or MDF. I can't shell out $1000. You're right about the big panels and I forsee problems in dealing with them. I will definetely be easier to have some help if you're using bags. The flip-top would be the 1st class way to go.

 

[D L Ames]

Bernhard, For the limited veneering projects I have accomplished to date I have ordered all of my veneers through Constantines Wood Center out of FL. Here is their web site: http://www.constantines.com/ They have a good selection of burls that I needed for some of the small projects I have been making. The first time I used my Vacu-Clamp bag I went with Titebond's Cold Press glue and it seemed to work pretty good. I didn't have any issues with it. It is a darker color about the same as the Titebond III WWing glue.

D L

 

[Bernhard]

..another question: How do you apply the glue? Do you use a Pfohl or similar style applicator? I am searching for something like that, preferably with a 6" (15cm) roller. Only found some for obscenely high prices.

Also, has anyone heard or dealt with Franklin Veneers? They are a veneer mill in Franklin County near Louisburg.

Bernhard

 

[zapdafish]

Bernhard,

I am going to try and put together a bag made out of clear shower curtains, its large sheets of pvc and super cheap, I dont see why it wont work. For now, waiting for some freetime and when its not to cold out so my glue wont freeze up on me. basically need daylight hours when the sun is out and i have time to do something

Will prob be a few weeks before I can get to this, between work and the holidays, there just isnt much time to do anything hobby related right now. If you are going to put together your own bag, def read up on joewoodworkers site, he has some tips on how to do it. I figure ill be working with alot of fumes so I went ahead and bought a respirator. he has warnings all over the instructions on how pvc cement will destroy brain cells and i need the few i got left