Soundproofing the Workshop

[tjwitzig]

I mentioned in my intro that I had a detached garage to turn into a workshop. I'd been progressing satisfactorily until I had a little dust-up with our next-door neighbors. Seems they've taken a dislike to us for reasons unknown. I had one pleasant conversation with the Mr the day we moved in in March, but since then they've ignored us, even to the extent of looking away when we wave to them from our driveway, which is about 25 feet from theirs. Almost immediately after moving in they started playing very loud music in their garage, which faces us, with the door halfway open every time we were outside making a little noise, like mowing the lawn, and leaving it on for hours. When I went over last week to ask them to turn it down I saw that there were two large speakers set up in the garage door with no one around. When he finally came outside after I knocked repeatedly on their doors, and then the missus came out looking totally enraged, we had one of the more bizarre conversations of my life. Basically, it was their opinion that if I make noise, like mowing, they can make noise to "counteract" it. They were "enjoying it from the inside of their house." I asked why they needed to put the loudspeakers in the garage with the door open, and they said our garage door was open too and we make noise so they can make noise. It got stranger after that. After he mentioned that I was on his property a couple times and don't knock on his door anymore I decided it was time to walk away, which I did. Somehow, I don't think noise is really the issue but can't identify anything we've done or said that might have offended them, which was easy since we have never spoken to them except the one time!)

Anyhow, with all that I am now paranoid about making any sound at all if we are going to get blasted by them, but I will have to make some serious noise from time-to-time and don't need a hassle with neighbors/HOA/police. So, what do you recommend for soundproofing? I'd already planned on putting in a double stud wall with various soundproofing techniques I've picked up on the internet, but I don't have a good solution for the garage door. Suggestions have been: 1. a new insulated door; 2. insulate the old door myself; 3. build a stud wall inside the door; 4. apply soundproofing material inside the door (but what about the weight?); 5. various combinations of the above. Have any of you dealt with the noise issue from a neighbor's point of view? Thanks for any advice you might give (and for sticking with this long post).

Tom Witzig

 

[Douglas Robinson]

Tom:

Sorry to hear about the "bad neighbor" situation. I would recommend trying to reason with them one more time. Send them a nice letter and say that you are sorry if you have offeended or annoyed them in any way. If your mowing has been a problem, ask them how it bothered them and how you can accommodate them. Make it clear you want to be a good neighbor and invite them to come over and talk to you. (That way you do not need to come on their property.) Be prepared that their response may still be weird, e.g., what ever you "did" may not be offensive to normal people. Since you are going to run a woodshop and will need to make some noise time and again, ask them how you can do this so as to minimize any bother to them.

Even if youtry to sound proof your shop they may still act irrationally. You might as well try to nip it in the bud.

Doug

 

[Mike Davis]

I had neighbors like that once, the only way to solve the problem is to move away.

Well, there is another way but it's not legal. :rotflm:

 

[Bigdog72]

Be very careful in how you approach this especially if you have a HOA. Check your restrictions and make sure you will not be in violation by using your garage for a workshop. Don't laugh, I build communities for a living and you would be surprised what ends up in those covenants. Unless you are a lawyer, don't send them anything in writing. Verbal is always better until you need to use a lawyer. Perhaps it is a racial or religious thing? Maybe the guy might be irritated because you mow on his holy day? Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[toolferone]

Wow, it does sound a little weird. It sounds (pun intended) like you are doing all you can to reduce the noise in the shop. Is there a real need to have the garage doors on the building? I would suggest removing them and putting in a wall with a double entry door in its place. This would also get rid of the door tracks in the shop. There is nothing you could not get in the double doors size wise, and it would look nice too. On a side note my shop is detached and is not even insulated yet and is a lot quieter then I thought it would be. With my dust collector and small planner running you can barely hear it in the shop, so as I insulate it should get even quieter. my .02 cents worth. Good luck with the neighbors.

 

[Bas]

A tough situation. What's that expression - people you can't stand will annoy you the way they hold their glass when they drink, whereas people you like can dump a plate of spaghetti in your lap without a fuss?

My suggestion: Have a belated "housewarming" party. Your average cookout and cold drinks. Keep the crowd pretty small, just the people in the neighborhood. Have some simple wooden toys on hand to give away to the kids to become an instant hero. Afterward, present your neighbors with a hand-made cutting board "for the inconvenience". Not accepting it would be rude. Accepting it and then later complaining about your woodworking would be hypocritical

Insulating the door is still a good idea, if only to keep out the heat. I'd try insulation panels first, simple, light and cheap. Tell your neighbor you did this, to show good faith. Even if the noise doesn't go down a whole lot, you can score points for effort.

Yes, it's a pain having to bend over backwards when you haven't really done anything wrong, but you're right, if they make a stink, you'll probably end up being the loser.

Good luck.

 

[GeorgeL]

I'm with Mike on this one... uh, for his second suggestion :qright5:

And, it's only illegal if you get caught, or something like that :dontknow:

George

 

[Mike Gilley]

Tom,
As far as the door question; I know that an insulated door can significantly reduce the amount of noise. The garage at our old house was maybe 20 feet from the house, and you couldn't hear any of the shop equipment running -unless the door was open.
When we moved into our new house, the first thing I did was insulate the garage door with the 2" thick rigid foam, and it dramatically cut down the noise as well, without adding a lot of extra weight to the door.

As far as the oddball neighbor; I'm truly sorry to hear about the misunderstanding that they seem to have.
I thought I might have had a similar issue with my new neighbor when we first moved in and I started using my planer for a few days after work. My neighbor came by to see what was causing all the noise and I apologized immediately.
Fortunately for me, he didn't have a problem with it, just reminded me that the noise restrictions don't kick in until 10pm.
And now he enjoys the fact that he has a woodworker for a neighbor :icon_thum.

Just my nickels worth, take it for what it's worth.
Regards,
Mike

 

[tjwitzig]

Guys:

Thanks for all your comments.

Doug:

You're right about trying to nip it in the bud. I may give it a try, but given the weirdness level I may try to find out more about the situation more circumspectly. The original owner of our house stopped by once while we were outside and mentioned, without prompting, that the neighbor "did his own thing." It sounded a little strange but we didn't really catch on. I may give him a call.

Geoff:

We have a covenant in the section on in-home businesses regarding "activities that may be or become an annoyance or nuisance." I suppose that could mean me. That's why I'm going to great lengths to soundproof it. Hopefully, there will be some sort of reasonableness standard if it comes down to it. But I know HOA's aren't always reasonable, so I'll have to tread lightly.

Tom:

Love your shop. It looks almost identical to mine except I have an attic. Your aquarium also looks like mine before I got rid of it when we moved down here. Great minds (especially ones named Tom) think alike!

Bas:

I like the party idea. We actually thought about that after being here a couple of months. We may yet give it a try, but I'm certain they won't show up.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Mike Davis]

Actually a friend of mine had a similar situation that went to court. The neighbor's activities were judged to be unusual and inflammatory while my friend was making a reasonable sound level during working hours and caused by normal activities. The judge threw the neighbor's case out and warned him not to turn up his stereo and leave the house or he would be facing charges.

Of course, his case has no bearing on your situation since it was in a different state and over twenty years ago. :rotflm:

 

[scsmith42]

I second Doug's suggestion. I would not bring up their unusual behavior, but focus on asking their advice about what you can do to be a good neighbor for them, mowing times, etc.

 

[cptully]

Tom,

You might want to check with your HOA to see if the officers would be willing to act as mediators of (better) if they have mediation firm on retainer. I would hate to hear that this initial strangeness and confrontation has blown up into a greater conflict!

Good Luck!

Chris

 

[pcooper]

My shop is very well insulated, has as much insulation in the walls as six inches of stud can stand. I also have insulated windows and an insulated door with adequate weatherstripping on it, all that and you can hardly hear my dust collector or compressor or even the planer running if you are standing right outside. That being said, if your neighbor can't stand the noise after you've done all that, then you'll never make them happy. Some folks need a life and use their unhappiness to make others miserable. That is one nice thing about living in the country, no neighbors, no HOA, no noise restrictions. I do try to live so that others aren't offended though. Sounds like you're doing the right thing, sorry they won't be reasonable.

 

[Mark Anderson]

if all else falis take the muffler off your lawn mower and have fun with it

 

[BarryC]

You have to ask youself if the friendship/tolerance/or what ever it is you want in a relationship them worth the trouble you are going thru? I doubt there will be anything you can do now that will make much of a difference. Maybe they just don't like change and when you moved in it changed the dynamic of their comfort zone. The only thing that is going to make a difference is going to be time. You do your thing and don't worry so much about how it is affecting them. If they know they are getting under you skin the behavior might continue.

I won't even get started on how I feel about HOAs!!!

 

[Steve W]

First, I don't think these run-ins really ever get resolved to the point where you become buddies with the neighbor. I had a run-in with one of mine over their dogs barking 25 feet from my living room for hours at a time. When I first mentioned it, I was dismissed with "well, that's what they do." Several nights later, after three hours of barking, at around 945 PM, I knocked on their door and asked them to bring their dogs in. A half an hour later, he came to my door, told me to never knock on their door again and told me "I should have known" when I moved in. (My neighbor on the other side has two dogs that she lets out for exercise and is quite considerate). I told him, as diplomatically as I could, that I didn't want this to be the source of bad blood but I already could see that it had. They never even acknowledge my existence anymore, but they have controlled their dogs better up to now. A little barking once in a while is to be expected -- three/four hours straight is not reasonable and I think it may have got through to them. My take is that if they're going to hate me over such a minor thing, they weren't worth making friends with in the first place.

As far as your issues go, as a woodworker and a ham radio operator, I have had heard of friction but haven't had too much myself. Mowing your lawn and other yard maintenance, as well as running your tools in your garage are considered normal accessory uses of your property. After all, the city will probably fine you if you don't cut your grass, right? Placing speakers in the doorway, cranking up the volume to max and sitting inside is so obviously done for the purpose of annoying you that I think you'd have a case to take to the HOA and I would almost CERTAINLY think you would have a case to bring to the city for violation of its noise/nuisance ordinances.

I'd try talking with HOA directors first, then calling the police if the HOA doesn't work out. Keep it verbal at this point.

HTH

:kermit: Steve

 

[cptully]

On the subject of dogs barking, I've usually been on the other side (i.e. the dog's owner). Although I must admit that I agree that barking is "what they do", I have worked hard to train my do not to bark incessantly. In my neighborhood in Maryland, my dog's barking did cause a little bit of friction, mostly due to lack of communication between neighbors. The first I heard of a problem was a visit from Animal Control. After that I noticed a strange device hanging from a tree in my neighbor's yard and asked about it. It turned out to be an electronic box that was supposed to discourage barking (worked great - Shadow just kept on barking :rolf: ). However, by then based on the Animal Control visit, I had made it a standard practice to call him in at the first bark, so a simple apology was enough to smooth the incident and develop a cordial relationship with that neighbor.

Although most sound ordinances do not go into affect until 10 or 11 at night I suspect that unattended loud music like Danny described is probably enough to get a gentle reminder from a friendly police man, if it continues for much longer.

Good Luck!

Chris

 

[Tarhead]

May be best to try to turn lemons into lemonade as Bas' suggested and make them a peace offering. You may need them to call 911 if your house is on fire. If that fails I wouldn't worry about noise as you won't win with them no matter what you do. Put your money into a good tall fence. I'm not a lawyer or an HOA expert but hobby woodworking is a reasonable thing to do in your garage as is mowing grass as long as they are done at reasonable times. Playing music in a garage or anywhere in a close neighborhood at full volume is not a reasonable thing to do any time.

We had a noisy downstairs neighbor in an apartment complex when I was in school and working nights. She loved disco music at full volume during my prime sleep time. Tried a few times to get her to understand how precious my sleep was including getting the manager involved. She finally got the message when I started pulling the main breaker to her apartment during her disco sessions and then played Bill Monroe and Stanley Bros. records with the speakers facing the floor. She moved...guess she didn't like the high and lonesome sound:rotflm:

 

[Steve W]

Mark, your description is reminding me of that scene near the end of Clockwork Orange where the guy's blasting Beethoven up at the ceiling where Alex was held captive :rotflm:

Yes, Chris, the operative term here was "normal" versus "incessant." I tried talking with them and got the brush-off. I also tried using the ultrasonic box and it had exactly the effect you described, so I brought it back (nobody else knew it was there or they didn't let on).

BTW, many towns/cities/counties are now adopting 24/7 nuisance ordinances -- presumably for these very sorts of things where a small number of folks can't discern the difference between "reasonable" and "unreasonable," rather than adopting hours of the day. If you're working in your shop for a few hours a week, I could not envision that this would be a "nuisance."

I'd put some foam on the inside of the door(s) (cheap and shows an effort to accommodate) and would still deal with their "retaliation" as I described.

 

[Sandy Rose]

I have learned that some people are just plain inconsiderate. We had a neighbor that let her two small dogs bark outside at 2am just about every night until she moved. After about 3 months of peace and quiet, some other neighbors behind us got 3 dogs that bark most of the day - not very pleasant since I work from home. They didn't seem to understand what I was saying when I said something to them, so now I light off a small firecracker in my back yard when they get too bad. It's actually pretty effective.