Questions on rubbing the finish...

[pslamp32]

Can you guys run me through your methods for rubbing the finish to a high gloss. I'm wondering about things specifically related to cure times (water-based polyacrylic specifically), sanding grits used, sanding lubricants, rubbing compounds etc. Also, wondering if buying a dedicated power polisher/ sander was useful for rubbing a finish to gloss or if hand rubbing is the norm. Thanks!

 

[woodnick]

I sand to 800 grit then polish with Finesse-It Final Finish polish. I have one of the pads that fits on my 5" ROS

 

[jmauldin]

What type of wood are you finishing? Also,what sheen finish are you using - high gloss or satin? If you want a really high gloss finish you should use high gloss varnish or lac. You should also use a paste grain filler after the sealer coat (do not use on maple or pine or other soft wood). I am going to assume you are applying 4-5 coats of finish, sanding between each coat with 220 gr. paper until you see no sheen of the last coat, in other words, smooth. After the final finish, sand with 200 gr then 600 gr. wet/dry paper (use water or ms as a lubricant). Then use 0000 steel wool and buff entire piece. Then you can take a power buffer (no need to use compound) and lightly buff piece. If you use polishing compound you will get a white residue in the pores that will not come out, Only option then is to stain again and then continue with finish. If you have used varnish it will take a little more elbow grease than with nc. As a professional finisher my process was an 18 step process, but you can get very good results witht the above.
Jim in Mayberry

 

[pslamp32]

What type of wood are you finishing? Also,what sheen finish are you using - high gloss or satin? If you want a really high gloss finish you should use high gloss varnish or lac. You should also use a paste grain filler after the sealer coat (do not use on maple or pine or other soft wood). I am going to assume you are applying 4-5 coats of finish, sanding between each coat with 220 gr. paper until you see no sheen of the last coat, in other words, smooth. After the final finish, sand with 200 gr then 600 gr. wet/dry paper (use water or ms as a lubricant). Then use 0000 steel wool and buff entire piece. Then you can take a power buffer (no need to use compound) and lightly buff piece. If you use polishing compound you will get a white residue in the pores that will not come out, Only option then is to stain again and then continue with finish. If you have used varnish it will take a little more elbow grease than with nc. As a professional finisher my process was an 18 step process, but you can get very good results witht the above.
Jim in Mayberry

Jim, currently I am finishing a QS Oak tabletop that has been toned mahogany red via transtint in dewaxed shellac (3-4 coats). After that I have sprayed many coats of polyacrylic sanding between coats. The reason for the # of coats is that I did not fill the grain initially so I am attempting to fill the grain with the finish. I'm almost there as the grain dimples are nearly gone. I have been wet sanding with mineral spirits & 600 grit between coats and things look pretty smooth and with a nice glossy sheen.
I read that steel wool gives more of a satin finish as well as being poorly suited for water-bourne finishes so I would like to avoid using it. Can I sub 1500 grit wet sandpaper? Also, what type of material do you use on the power buffer? I assume it is not sandpaper, perhaps some kind of lambswool?

p.s. - is NC short for lacquer? I doubt I will ever use much lacquer because I hate the fumes. I tried using it for my last project and it took 2 weeks to get the smell out of my house (basement shop) and i swear it was making me nauseated every day. Most likely I will continue to use either shellac or water-based varnishes although occasional oil-based during nice warm weather.

Thanks.

 

[GarageWoodworks]

Can you guys run me through your methods for rubbing the finish to a high gloss. I'm wondering about things specifically related to cure times (water-based polyacrylic specifically), sanding grits used, sanding lubricants, rubbing compounds etc. Also, wondering if buying a dedicated power polisher/ sander was useful for rubbing a finish to gloss or if hand rubbing is the norm. Thanks!

When I want a high gloss smooth finish I will apply 4-5 coats of poly and use 0000 steel wool inbetween coats after a day of curing. For the final coat I let it cure for a week and rub it out with pumice (2F followed by 4F). Some people will start with rottenstone before going to pumice, but I don't think it's neccessary. I have used both water and mineral oil (I prefer water now) for the lubricant with the pumice and a felt block. You have to be carefull not to cut through the finish into the wood. A little rubbing goes a long way. Rub a little and remove the pumice with a cloth to check your progress and re-apply and rub if necessary. It is difficult to see the sheen with a layer of gritty pumice on top of the finish.

I don't do this very often because although it gives your furniture a high gloss, it also makes your furniture feel like smooth plastic. Personally, I like to feel the grain a little when I touch furniture.

Good Luck

 

[pslamp32]

What do you use to level the finish before buffing? Also, isn't the rottenstone finer than pumice thus giving a glossier finish? Does using water-based poly affect which lubricant you can use?

I like a more 'in the wood' finish sometimes as well but this project is very modern and the tabletop needs a very mirror-like 'french polish' look IMO. Thanks!

Oh, BTW, nice saw Brian!

 

[GarageWoodworks]

What do you use to level the finish before buffing? Also, isn't the rottenstone finer than pumice thus giving a glossier finish? Does using water-based poly affect which lubricant you can use?

I like a more 'in the wood' finish sometimes as well but this project is very modern and the tabletop needs a very mirror-like 'french polish' look IMO. Thanks!

Oh, BTW, nice saw Brian!

I use a block of felt to rub out. Any ridges from the finish will be leveled with the block. I always thought that 4F pumice was finer than rottenstone, but I could be mistaken (I don't use rottenstone).

Once the poly is cured it doesn't matter which lubricant you use. Water based poly is a reactive finish. Once cured, it is impervious to water.

 

[jmauldin]

Peter
Yes, NC stands for nitrocelluous lacq. It is what I use predominately. However, I have a separate shop - 50 yds from the house or anything else, so fumes don't bother me, or anyone else. With good ventilation you don't smell it in the shop either.
Now, as to the 1500 gr. paper. On oak that isn't necessary. I just use a lamb wool bonnet on my polisher. On pieces like mah. or walnut I have used Macquires polishing compound, yes the same you use on cars. But that is only for a mirror finish, which I don't necessarily like because they scratch too easily.
Anyway, next time try using a grain filler. The easiest and quickest is Crystalac "clear" wood grain filler from McFeely's (www.McFeelys.com). It is really easy to use and does a great job.
Show us some pics when you are finished.
Jim in Mayberry

 

[pslamp32]

Peter
The easiest and quickest is Crystalac "clear" wood grain filler from McFeely's (www.McFeelys.com). It is really easy to use and does a great job.
Show us some pics when you are finished.
Jim in Mayberry

Thanks Jim. This was going to be the next question. Honestly, I think finishing is by far the most challenging part of woodworking to 'get'. There just seems to be so many products with so many names and so many methods. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[cskipper]

I agree,finishing is the worst part too! I have quite number of pieces just waiting and I just can't decide what to use and how to apply it.

 

[Nativespec]

I like to use wax as my final finish after sanding the poly with a 600 grit. The wax helps protect against scratches and can be applied later on.

David

 

[dancam]

Peter,

The grades for polishing are as follows:

Pumice
Rottenstone
Tripoli

They all have grades within the category such as 4F, 2F etc.

PLease pubish some more pics as you finish up this project.

Dan C.