Maybe we need a new forum

[ScottM]

Reggie just posted an thread on the economy. There will be more for sure I know it is against site policy but it is hard to deny what is going on around us. Does it make sense to create a new forum say called Venting. It would still need to be moderated to make sure it stays clean and civil but atleast it has it's own place and folks who don't want to see the topics can totally ignore that forum.

Just my 2cents

 

[MikeH]

[STRIKE]
Excellent idea Scott! I second the notion. It seems logical to me.
[/STRIKE]

Ok strike my statement above. I attribute the statement above to a serious lack of sleep this week.

 

[DaveO]

I don't see how you can have a "Venting" forum that would/could stay with in the site policies. The Off Topic forum is most appropriate for those type of posts as long as they remain within policy. If a person feels that they need to type out a rant that isn't within the posting guidelines there are many other sites on the net where they can do that. We don't need to go there. You can't please all the people al the time :BangHead:

Dave

 

[ptt49er]

Not knocking the idea, but how many people on NCWW actually browse the site by forum? I know I don't. I use the new post search every time. The only time I ever go in through the forums is to start a new thread.

I think that the off topic forum kind of is our venting forum. As soon as everyone gets the venting out of their system it'll be done. We have a good core group of members that will help keep things civilized.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Funny to see this ... I was thinking we NOT ONLY need a new forum for politics and ticks me off ... but it would surely be nice if it were an "opt-in" to see the posts placed there.

I do think NCWW is a place for woodworking first, but I also see why friends come together to vent. They want to know they are not alone.

As for JackLeg ... he's miffed for sure.

 

[ScottM]

Dave, that was surely not my first choice but I am trying to start a discussion. It will only get worse. I think as Mods we really need to take a hard stand either allow these or band all economy threads.

Again my 2 cents.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Now that I read this entire thread ... I think I'd just let it go and when it crosses a clear line of breaking the rules of the first and foremost woodworking forum of NCWW ... then, and only then, it is killed.

Another idea ... make them come to the conclusion themselves that this isn't the place. How? Someone start a thread about coming here to talk about tools, wood, and projects and wishing to avoid the politics that is so prevalent (Wasn't MikeH saying something along these lines). I think a thread along those lines will gently get the point across (for a little while at least)

 

[McRabbet]

I just deleted a thread that Jackleg started called "Stimulus Payments" because it is political and we just cannot allow these to continue. I'll send him a PM.

 

[TracyP]

Yes, we are a tight knit group of mostly local people. We get together in person and meet, eat, and retreat. That is where these topics need to be discussed, not here. In a mere 12 hours or less this forum has had three volatile threads that clearly violate the policies that we all have agreed to uphold. It just cannot be allowed to continue because of the negative Carma that threads like these foster. And there does not need to be a child forum added that violates the policies of the parent forums. If I stepped on any toes, I am sorry. But I agreed to uphold the policies of the site. To which there are no gray areas.

 

[cskipper]

I don't agree with adding this forum. Might this be a good time to remind people about the chat room. Most folks who want to fuss have a specific sub-group they want to fuss to. They can invite them there and vent away and only those in the room (and Adnmins...) see the comments. That wasn't the intent of the room, but could be used without breaking the rules (I think). If others want it at the same time for a real wwing topic they could go to a second room. Just an idea.

 

[ScottM]

I don't agree with adding this forum. Might this be a good time to remind people about the chat room. Most folks who want to fuss have a specific sub-group they want to fuss to. They can invite them there and vent away and only those in the room (and Adnmins...) see the comments. That wasn't the intent of the room, but could be used without breaking the rules (I think). If others want it at the same time for a real wwing topic they could go to a second room. Just an idea.

Cathy that is a great idea about the chat room. TY

 

[woodArtz]

I agree with Jeremy... we should convince folks that NCWW is a sanctuary from the mayhem that is swirling around us, not a place to stir it up further. Adding another avenue for this type of topic will only double the chance that someone will open the door for a controversial discussion.

With that said, the danger zone has and will continue to be the "Off Topic" forum. This seems to be the hardest to moderate. So, do we shut down a discussion on "buy American" as political... do we allow a discussion on aggravating customer service at a woodworking supplier, even though someone on the forum may be an employee there? I don't have an answer... just more questions :dontknow:. I guess it is best to just keep trying to cajole folks to keep it "clean" and remember that we're all here as woodworking friends... even if we have different opinions on what's happening on the "outside".

Just my due centesimi...

 

[toolferone]

NCWW is not the place for that kind of posting. This is my place away from all the things I see on the news. We just need to keep earning our pay.

 

[clowman]

To add a Venting forum, would only invite people to well... "vent". I guarantee it will be vicious, volatile, political, religious, demeaning to some, whatever. I stand firmly against a venting forum.

 

[Douglas Robinson]

Tracy has said it better than I could (and typed it better too. :gar-La. I know these issues are on people's minds, but we are a woodworking forum! Some people need to get a life. What I mean is they need other outlets and need to stop trying to bring every thought they have onto the forum. We have a policy! They need to be reminded, and if they continue they need a more directly worded reminder. Maybe we need to discuss such posters individually here.

Doug

Yes, we are a tight knit group of mostly local people. We get together in person and meet, eat, and retreat. That is where these topics need to be discussed, not here. In a mere 12 hours or less this forum has had three volatile threads that clearly violate the policies that we all have agreed to uphold. It just cannot be allowed to continue because of the negative Carma that threads like these foster. And there does not need to be a child forum added that violates the policies of the parent forums. If I stepped on any toes, I am sorry. But I agreed to uphold the policies of the site. To which there are no gray areas.

 

[McRabbet]

I'm going to paste in dialog from several PM's that started with my message to Reggie (Jackleg) last night when I deleted his thread entitles Economic Stimulus in the Other Topics Forum. I agree with Steve's last PM to me -- we need to clarify our definition of "political". Here's the PM's:

Originally Posted by McRabbet

Reggie,

I'm sorry, but your thread had to be closed as it is definitely political. While I understand your frustration with the economy, our forums are just not the place to express your political views. I hope you understand.
​

Response Posted by JackLeg

I would appreciate your showing me exactly what is POLITICAL about this thread. No offense taken here, Rob, but, I don't see where this qualifys as being political.

I'm not frustrated with our economy, just concerned, very concerned. Not trying to begin a debate, as I know who holds the cards here. I'm done.
​

Follow-up Posted by McRabbet (sent to ScottM, TracyP, DaveO, SteveColes)

I haven't answered him yet, but the thread is political from start to end ... He's obviously angry about the state of the US economy, but it just doesn't belong here. I'll answer it tomorrow after I've thought about it some more.
​

Response Posted by SteveColes

I've thought about this before when other people have questioned the same thing. I think that the problem is people's perception of the definition of the word political. I have always given it a very broad meaning. Perhaps we need to either clarify our meaning of the word or add a category that more clearly defines our intention.

-----------End PM

To me, a thread is in the political realm if it discusses any issue that involves our government decision making -- war, taxes, economy, voting, etc. In other words, issues like the economic stimulus package versus tax cuts should be prohibited and frankly, I think the Buy American issue is borderline... We may find some issues that relate to woodworking may get close -- e.g., discussions about the new Consumer Product Safety Information Act should be allowed because they impact the woodworking industry. It should be okay to talk about one's personal plight (some members have been laid off), but not to the extent that it is so-and-so's [insert political party] fault.

I came close this morning to posting a thread in the Off Topic Forum called "Political Threads" and starting it with the words: "are not appropriate here". Then I'd ask our members to remember that we are here to enjoy the world of woodworking and our discussions should remain focused there.

IHMO, If we cannot get the membership to understand that 100%, our only other choice is to close the Off Topic Forum.

 

[sapwood]

Late to the party again, but here's my take.

Do not start a Vent Forum! There are enough problems in the Off Topic forum. However, I consider an Off Topic Forum necessary. Inevitably, folks go "off topic". Whether it is to post about a grandchild, discuss weather or health issues, or regrettably rave on economy, politics, etc. The latter must be negated, but the posts are generally herded into an Off-Topic forum that demands close oversight. A demand we failed this time.

Primary focus has always been to succeed as woodworking forum without the rancor and flames that appear on "other" forums. Perhaps we have erred in using the word political, even with a broad definition.

I think a broader definition of "political", a better policy statement, or new definition like "hot button topics are not allowed" should be considered.

Roger

 

[WoodWrangler]

A few more comments as I watch this play out ...

"Political" is probably not what NCWW needs to avoid as much as "non-woodworking" topics all together. To me, "Religious" views and "Non-religious" comments are equally as offending and unwelcomed as the strong minded "Political" ones to much of our membership.

This is a website about woodworking & that is why most of us are here, I imagine. If the rule says "if it's not woodworking, it doesn't pertain" then the the line is clearly drawn within reason. If one must say "no political posts" then one must say "no religious posts" and "no anything-else-nonwoodworking posts" in all fairness and clarity.

Personally, I don't get riled up by any of the comments. Typically I actually laugh about how silly people are and what they say is often incomplete (like many of my woodworking projects).

Not sure if that adds value, but figured I'd give my two cents.

 

[woodArtz]

I think the "hot button" approach with its inherent generalities is the way to go. That way, the description of what is not allowed can be broad enough to discourage "corner cases". Religion, politics, ethnicity, etc.... basically anything that could be deemed as potentially inflammatory should be discouraged. As most have stated, this is our happy place... we don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable when they come here.

OK, now I'm up to four cents...

Bob

P.S. Did I mention that I think machine cut dovetails are far superior to hand cut! :gar-Bi

 

[WoodWrangler]

P.S. Did I mention that I think machine cut dovetails are far superior to hand cut! :gar-Bi

Are you nuts? :gar-La;:rolf: