First Turning Class Report

[gator]

I took my first turning class last Saturday at Woodcraft with Alan Leland instructing. We did lots of beads and coves and ended up making a weed pot. Not being a turner, I really did not know what to expect and as a result I'm not sure how to rate the class. I did learn what some of the basic techniques should be and what they look like. Notice I said that I learned what they should be, not that I learned how to do them. I am going to have to spend a lot of time on the lathe practicing. I just hope I can remember the correct techniques as I practice. All this 'start low, raise, twist and move left (or right) in sequence or similtaniously', almost too much for this old tired brain to keep in the proper sequence. The one thing I was sorta' disappointed in was the few references to my 'poor' tools. Not everyone, in my opinion, can afford to go out and in one shot get a few Sorbys or other high end brand of tools. I have the basic beginners set from Harbor Freight for $39.95. The HSS is not as good as Sorbys, the depth of the flute isn't in the proper ratio to the diameter of the rod, the grind angle is not the angle one finds on the high end tools, and so on. I guess it is my feeling that the instructor should realize that there are all levels of newbies and 'newbie tools' and that the instruction should take that into account. At least though, I now know what to look for when I start upgrading the tools, one at a time. I am taking the three hour turning sharpening course in March. I warned him that I will be back with these same tools and maybe he can help me get proper (or as proper as possible) grinds and angles on the tools that I have. I knew that when I got the lathe that that was only the beginning cost but I just didn't particularly like being made to feel that I needed to spend $250 on tools and $80-$100 on a grinder and proper wheels before I could learn how to turn. Maybe its just me, what do I know anyway.;-)

But, I had fun, I think I learned something, and have a feeling that after a while I may learn to like this new area of woodworking that has eluded me for lo these many years.

George

 

[DaveO]

Practice makes perfect. You will start to get a feel for what you should be doing. Keep turning and don't worry about trying to make anything in particular...that way if there is a design change who cares. There is nothing wrong with the HF tools, just like there is nothing wrong with a Delta Shop Master contractor, but a 5HP Uni is better.

Dave

 

[clowman]

I was going to sign up for that class.. but we sold our house, and I was stuck packing. I think I'll take the sharpening class though. I may get that same Harbor Freight set, just to see if he says the same to me.:BangHead:

 

[SteveColes]

I took the same class with Alan that you did, a few months ago. Though they had loaner tools for us to use.

Before I went to the class, I had every intention of buying a midi-lathe and a set of tools after the class. When the class was finished, I was so frustrated that I just said the h--- with it and went home.

This was a class for beginners, but he spent so much time on

All this 'start low, raise, twist and move left (or right) in sequence or similtaniously', almost too much for this old tired brain to keep in the proper sequence

That I left with no idea what each tool would do, let alone how to do it. I had never touched a turning tool so I was doing everything he said by rote, which is a bad way for me to learn.

 

[erasmussen]

I am with you on the tools.
I can not affored the better ones, so i do what i can with my cheap tools
I get the job done,:icon_thum of course it might be easyer or faster with expensive ones.
My wife thinks eating is more importent then new tools:crybaby2:

 

[clowman]

When we were in Woodguy's class, he had a good comment about the HF turning set. He said (something like this)... There is nothing wrong with these tools, if nothing else, they will teach you how to sharpen your tools.

A good statement for someone starting out, and no insults were laid down. Constructive.. yes. Insulting.. no.

 

[JRD]

Don't worry about it!

I firmly believe that practice and the resulting skills that come with time and effort are the most important things in defining your craftsmanship. I too do not have "the Best" tools available, but I am pleased with the results I have achieved, and the enjoyment I have derived from turning.

To hades with it all. Turn, learn, and most importantly, enjoy yourself in the process.

Jim

 

[gator]

I don't want anyone to get me wrong. The instructor was not 'insulting' about the tools, just had a tone and expression of, what would be a good word?, distain? And it was only a couple of conversations out of the whole day. It just made me 'feel' that I couldn't learn with these tools. I know that every woodworker, flat world or round, will have 'his' or 'her' way of doing something and their favorite tools, but the instructor also kept telling us how great his humongous (well it looked bigger than any of mine) roughing gouge was. Must've been about 1¼", flat across the face (end - whatever the tip is called) and the two sides of the flute ground flat. He did admit that he does a lot of his work with this tool, but the idea being that none of the students had one like it and no 'ready-to-go' sets have one (nor did any of the 'loaner' sets). Why not show how to rough using a more 'conventional' gouge. I just received a "Special Offer For New Customers" catalog from Lee Valley and one of the items in it is a 1¼" roughing gouge blade only (no handle) going for $79.50. I don't think I'm ready to go that much, at this time, for a tool that the instructor likes.

Yep, they had sets of loaner tools for the class but I had called ahead and asked if I could bring mine so that I could get the feel of them as I was learning and could go home with the same feel and not have to make another adjustment between class and home.

George

 

[Monty]

hehehe.... did your tools look something like THESE?!?!? ;-)




Some of the best turners I have seen use home-made tools. Your tools (and mine) are not "premium", but neither are a lot of turners I know. IMHO, a set like this is good for newbies (like me) for several reasons - not the least of which is you don't have a clue what kind of tools you'll wind up using when you first start out. Also, like Clay mentioned I would much rather waste steel on one of these instead of a top-$$$ tool while I learn how to properly sharpen.

Having said that, I think most people end up using the tools that they were taught - that is, the tools that their instructors showed them how to use. Someone showed me how to use a fingernail ground bowl gouge, and that's why I have one of those instead of a more traditional bowl gouge. Use what you've got - you CAN sharpen them and use them. And by all means, KEEP ON TURNING!!! :icon_thum


Oh yea.... you said you made a weed pot??? Well, I DON'T SEE NO PICS!!! :slap:

 

[Big Mike]

Well, let me jump in where angels fear to tread. First of all, Steve and George, despite the discouraging things that happened to you during your turning class, turning is great fun. And secondly, it is not the tool it is the craftsman that makes the difference. Long before the advent of high speed steel, 1 1/4" roughing gouges, and whatever else new that is being pitched to turners, great craftsman of the day were turning out magnificent pieces of work with chunks of iron hammered out by the village blacksmith.

I will never possess the skills of Alan Leland. I wish I could turn like him but it ain't gonna happen. But I sure do have fun with the skills I have. I learned practically everything I know about turning from books. The only turner I had ever seen was Norm on TV until I went to a demo at Klingspor. No doubt there is much to be learned from some of these great turners but some of them have such high and exalted opinions of themselves that it is hard for them to stoop down to where the rest of us are. I am not saying that about Mr. Leland as I do not know him from Adam. But there are many highly skilled turners who are on the various websites that have a tendency to look down their nose at the rest of us. Again, I have no reason to believe that Mr. Leland falls into that category.

My first tools were a mishmosh of stuff from Shopsmith and Craftsman. Heck, I was foolish enough and ignorant enough to learn to turn with those tools. I still use some of my Shopsmith and Craftsman tools along with an assortment of tools from every other manufacturer on the planet that is affordable. A tool is only as good as the hand that holds it. And if you can't sharpen it you might as well use a hatchet. I hope you learned something about sharpening tools because for me the single most important thing I have ever learned about turning was sharpening. A sharp turning tool sure makes turning more pleasurable.

I believe that different instructors have different methods for reaching their students. Maybe a different instructor would click with you. Also try to get some books on woodturning. One of my favorites was Keith Rowley's Fundamentals of Woodturning. I found his written explanations to be something I could understand and implement. His turning projects in that book are also something that a novice can succeed at with perseverance. I have only had the opportunity to take courses from one guy and I took two classes with him at John C. Campbell. I highly recommend a week of immersion turning at a school like John C. Campbell if you can swing it.

Enough rambling. I just believe turning is too much fun to get discouraged at the beginning. Just put some pine turning squares between centers and make bumpy sticks until you get the feel for it. Take some scraps from 2X construction lumber and practice turning a bowl. No better way than just getting on the lathe and practicing. Just don't turn with the lathe at top speed until you have some familiarity with the equipment. And wear a faceshield if it is your first time on the lathe or you have been turning for 30 years. Go have some fun.....It ain't rocket surgery, er, brain science....................oh, never mind.:-?

 

[b4man]

That is a very thoughtful and thought provoking piece George. It's lead me to share my own thoughts about the experience I had with Woodguy and the others in our dovetail class. First, I had no idea what to expect but I wasn't prepared to be as humbled, frustrated and annoyed as I was when I left there. I learned a lot about myself if not about cutting acceptable dovetails. My tools were all wrong even though I'd gone shopping! Never once did anyone criticize my "construction" equipment except for McRabbit who told me my dovetail saw was for cutting off doors not dovetails! I appreciate him for that even if I was horrified!
There were different levels of ability in our group. I felt John did a wonderful job of instructing and encouraging us all. I enjoyed the help and suggestions the others offered. I may not have left that day with a good joint but I did go home with the desire and determination to make one...and so help me when I do I will post a picture!
In closing I want to say that a good teacher doesn't just instruct they encourage the desire in their students to reach beyond the classroom. I'm grateful I left with that. Thanks again John, Rob and the others. And, thank you George for so eloquently expressing your feelings about your experience. I believe it will make those who teach better and those who do better.

 

[SteveColes]

Just to be fair, I think ought to mention that Alan is a very nice guy. In class he had the patience of Job. I think, if I had had an hour or two to play by myself, then the class would have had more meaning for me.

And I think Alan assumes that has happened becuase when he went around the class at the beginning asking what experience everyone had, I was the only one who had never touched a turning tool.

 

[SteveColes]

Oh yea.... you said you made a weed pot??? Well, I DON'T SEE NO PICS!!! :slap:

Well, I can't speak for george, but here's mine.

I kept throwing it away, but the LOML keep retrieving it and putting it on display:roll: I haven't figured out whether she was trying to shame me, or if love is truely blind:lol:

 

[McRabbet]

It's lead me to share my own thoughts about the experience I had with Woodguy and the others in our dovetail class. First, I had no idea what to expect but I wasn't prepared to be as humbled, frustrated and annoyed as I was when I left there. I learned a lot about myself if not about cutting acceptable dovetails. My tools were all wrong even though I'd gone shopping! Never once did anyone criticize my "construction" equipment except for McRabbit who told me my dovetail saw was for cutting off doors not dovetails! I appreciate him for that even if I was horrified!
There were different levels of ability in our group. I felt John did a wonderful job of instructing and encouraging us all. I enjoyed the help and suggestions the others offered. I may not have left that day with a good joint but I did go home with the desire and determination to make one...and so help me when I do I will post a picture!
In closing I want to say that a good teacher doesn't just instruct they encourage the desire in their students to reach beyond the classroom. I'm grateful I left with that. Thanks again John, Rob and the others. And, thank you George for so eloquently expressing your feelings about your experience. I believe it will make those who teach better and those who do better.

I am truly sorry I made the comment about your jamb saw :eusa_doh: -- you did a great job cutting very straight lines with it :eusa_clap (I used a western dovetail saw and a Japanese saw and had real trouble staying on my lines!). It is a good saw for this use as well and if I was out of line, I apologize. :eusa_pray Like you, I thoroughly enjoyed the class, our time together and our great tutor!

Rob

 

[cskipper]

I am sorry that your first class was frustrating. Recommending different tools differs greatly from bad mouthing your current tools. Every class you take will be different, even from the same instructor. Learn to turn with the tools you have. Watch to see what tools others use. You'll figure out what you want to buy. Heck, take cad's info and make your own.

My first class was a pen class so it wasn't too difficult - and I had a fair instructor. I've take two other classes with excellent instructors and went home scratching my head. I had no idea what all we covered - too much to absorb in a class. I'm stilling working on coves/beads! I've had several instructors and I think all of them do things differently, from tool choice, methods of holding the tools. the height of the tool rest...

I've had a good percentage of pieces that have required a redesign opportunity. I'd blown pen blanks, cut through bowl walls.... I'm using wood we had laying around the shop so I don't worry about making mistakes with a good piece of wood. Mistakes are part of learning - minor let you make some design changes, worse ones give me the opportunity to really experiment on the wood that's still there (I try different ways of holding tools, work on my coves/beads...)

I hope you don't let this class keep you from learning to turnl. It fun!

 

[cskipper]

Don't throw it away - date it. You will be able to look back at it and realize how far you've come!

 

[b4man]

Rob...don't apologize to me! You didn't offend me you effected me! Thanks for noticing my straight lines now if I can just make those tails and pins match I'll learn how to make them fit! Still working on it and hope for success before I leave for the high seas.