Filling Grain and Finish ideas

[danmart77]

Its a funny thing how interests out there vary. I have received more pm's than ever with questions about how I finished some walnut on a recent project. I guess the joinery and construction is more obvious?? I must confess, I am surprised after reading many times how much folks do not like finishing and they just want to be "done with it as soon as possible" in most cases.

Establishing a smooth surface is the key. Everyone can at least agree on that much. How we get there is another matter. I will outline my approach which is a fairly simple path these days. Maybe a small twist here or there but nothing too radical.

1. I mill stock with a planer to thickness and a little. I like to use a smoothing plane to quickly remove the milling marks from the surface. For difficult stuff, I have a York pitch plane and a steep angled blade for my LN low angle jack that I use to get it smooth. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Out comes the scraping tools. I have the old black 2 handled Stanley and I have the old scraping plane to get it done. Now it looks pretty good. Yes I do use sand paper. No I do not use power sanders. I think they create more work for me than helping me reduce the work load. The random orbit sanders leave little ugly swirl marks that are tough to get out. So..

After sanding a bit, its time for a damp cloth wipe over. This raises the grain and fuzz. More light sanding. Dye coat with water stain. Time to fill the grain.

News Flash: Sherwin-Williams makes the finest grain filler I have ever used. The silica is so fine and the binder is great. The only problem is its available only in gallons. Once you try it, you won't go back to the stuff in the quart cans.

You can slop the filler on with a brush or a rag. I like to thin it a bit. I wait about 5-10 minutes and "wipe off the excess with a rough cloth like burlap" to get rid of the excess. edit

Rub it back- with a clean cloth and seal with shellac. Level again with filler. Wipe it back. Shellac sealer. Now I begin fine tuning the colors with artists oil paint mixed with japan colors and turpentine or naptha. I like to add a few drops of Japan drier. Small adjustments. Seal with shellac. Take your time and you will have a nice even surface with nice color.

That's pretty much what I use to get walnut and mahogany to come together.

Most of the time I don't have all of my boards from a single log with the planks cut in numbered order. I'd love to have that but its just not a perfect world. The techniques I use are simple. You don't need spray equipment for this kind of thing. I don't do enough work to warrant a spray booth and air filtration equipment.

Hope this helps and stirs up some additional inputs/techniques

dan

 

[Gofor]

I...
Rub it back seal with shellac. Level again with filler. Wipe it back. Shellac sealer. Now I begin fine tuning the colors with artists oil paint mixed with japan colors and turpentine or naptha. I like to add a few drops of Japan drier. Small adjustments. Seal with shellac. Take you time and you will have a nice even surface with nice color. ....

dan

Sounds so simple. Hey, you are talking to a bunch of wood butchers here. Methinks you are a talented artist speaking Greek to the Romans. You lost me with " Rub it back seal with shellac. Level again with filler. Wipe it back. Shellac sealer. Now I begin fine tuning...."

What you find so simple is anything but IMHO:icon_scra

Go

 

[merrill77]

News Flash: Sherwin-Williams makes the finest grain filler I have ever used. The silica is so fine and the binder is great. The only problem is its available only in gallons. Once you try it, you won't go back to the stuff in the quart cans.

Thanks for the tip! The best finish I've ever had on oak was when I filled the pores. I'll be doing it again on my next project...so I'll try the S-W filler.

 

[Glennbear]

Thanks for sharing your methodology Dan. :icon_thum I just have one question :icon_scra, you said you like to thin the S-W grain filler, what solvent do you use to do so ? Thanks. :wsmile:

 

[danmart77]

what solvent do you use to do so ? glenn

Glenn
I use Naptha, Min Spirits or Turpentine. If I am doing a small area and I want the filler/paste to set up quickly, I use Naptha. It seems to dry up more quickly than MS or Turp. Most of the time I am not in a big rush so I use what ever is around. This is also a good time to put some color in the mixture. Any oil based stain or paint will work. You can just keep layering it on and sealing it till you're happy. Like they always say: Work it out on a test piece to get your plan.

There are times when I don't get back to the first section for 30 minutes and the paste really sets up hard. Rather than fighting with it, I take a rag wet down with MS and wipe of the excess. This pulls some of the filler out of the pores and I need to go back and fill again.

Most of the times that I fill grain, I have to do it at least 2 sessions to really fill up the holes. In the past, I have tried filling with multiple layers of shellac and sanding back. This takes too long for me. I prefer to fill walnut and mahogany with a paste. The message here is to get a good filler(I like SW stuff) and get it in the pores and wipe off the excess with a rough cloth that won't scratch the wood. Here in NC, the period of time you wait before sealing with shellac is hinged on the season. This time of year the stuff is drying very quickly. On the other hand, the days of summer need more drying time.

Hope this helps
dan

 

[Bob Wingard]

I use plain old drywall mud for my filler. You can stain it before or after application, depending on the look you want. To highligth grain, prestain the filler a different shade/color, and apply it only to a stained project. To blend in the filler, apply it to a bare project, then stain the whole works.

I apply it pretty liberally (that's about the ONLY time I could be called LIBERAL) and pack it in with a good window washing squeegee. Since the layer is so thin, it dries in very short order. Takes most stains just fine, and .. .. . it's DIRT CHEAP !! !! !! :banana:

 

[danmart77]

I use plain old drywall mud for my filler...

I have read somewhere that people used plaster of paris. I guess its about the same concept. I have not tried much of the water based fillers or the water based finishes so I am the wrong guy to ask about that area. I guess I am still stuck in the solvent end of things.

I was wondering?? After you get rid of the excess mud, what do you use to seal the filler? Do you apply water based dyes to the wood and the plaster? then seal?

Maybe a little more info? It sounds interesting.

dan

 

[zapdafish]

Great topic!. If a can says stain and finish is it considered a stain for this process?

Like http://www.minwax.com/products/one_step_stain_and_finishes/polyshades.html or Watco which advertises itself as "a unique blend of penetrating oil & varnish hardens in the wood"

I also picked up some dye awhile back from woodworker supply. I think its a good time to mix it up and see how it works.

 

[Tarhead]

I tint the Drywall mud with acrylic paint (from the craft aisle at Wallyworld) if I plan to leave a clear finish, seal with shellac then topcoat.

I leave it white, fill and then use a water soluble dye to establish an even tone. Then seal with dewaxed Shellac and glaze over with a gel stain if I need to refine.

The main problem with drywall mud is it shrinks and can pull out if you're not careful. I thin it to pancake batter consistency and spread with an old credit card and mash in with a short blade rubber squeegee. Let it dry, sand and repeat everything at least 3 times.

My next learning experience is Zpoxy.

 

[Bob Wingard]

I've used drywall compound for a LONG time, and have never had any issues with shrinking and/or coming out of place. I mean, we are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch here .. .. how much could it possibly shrink ?? ?? ?? If you have any such concerns, you could always use the dry compound that you mix just prior to use .. it doesn't shrink at all, and it dries/cures much faster .. I believe they refer to it as a "SETTING COMPOUND".

 

[Tarhead]

I've used drywall compound for a LONG time, and have never had any issues with shrinking and/or coming out of place. I mean, we are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch here .. .. how much could it possibly shrink ?? ?? ?? If you have any such concerns, you could always use the dry compound that you mix just prior to use .. it doesn't shrink at all, and it dries/cures much faster .. I believe they refer to it as a "SETTING COMPOUND".

A few thou is all it takes to show when you're after a glass smooth "piano" finish. By recoating (sometimes a lot of times) with the mud and re-leveling you take care of any shrinkage.

Thinning it down and not being overly aggressive with the squeegee is my cure for keeping it from pulling out of the grain before it sets up but I still see it happening. I don't know if the new mud loosens the old but I can have an area very well filled in except for a small place and go over it one more time and then have a few new areas to deal with. It's probably how I hold my mouth when I squeegee:gar-La;

 

[TominZebulon]

Ok, I am curious now. I have never filled the pores, but since I am getting close to finishing my vanity and it will have a walnut top, I would love to hear more about it. I am not putting any stain and using a finish I got from Gregory Paolini that is 3 parts MS, 2 parts poly and 1 part BLO. Does this filler dry white or clear? I know drywall mud drys white, but I am not familiar with the S-W filler.

 

[merrill77]

A few thou is all it takes to show when you're after a glass smooth "piano" finish. By recoating (sometimes a lot of times) with the mud and re-leveling you take care of any shrinkage.

Thinning it down and not being overly aggressive with the squeegee is my cure for keeping it from pulling out of the grain before it sets up but I still see it happening. I don't know if the new mud loosens the old but I can have an area very well filled in except for a small place and go over it one more time and then have a few new areas to deal with. It's probably how I hold my mouth when I squeegee:gar-La;

So if drywall mud is a bit finicky and requires re-coating when it shrinks, why not just use real wood filler? Maybe I've just been lucky, but I have not had any shrinkage problems with real wood filler. I think I used Behlens recently and I'm sure I've used Elmers in the past, but with very good results.

 

[Tarhead]

So if drywall mud is a bit finicky and requires re-coating when it shrinks, why not just use real wood filler? Maybe I've just been lucky, but I have not had any shrinkage problems with real wood filler. I think I used Behlens recently and I'm sure I've used Elmers in the past, but with very good results.

Are you talking about Wood Putty? What do you thin it with to get it in to the pores for grain filling?