Thinking ShopFox - UPDATE

[ErnieM]

As you know, I'm having a problem getting ShopFox parts. Thought you might be interested in reading some of the correspondence I've had with the company. This is the third letter I wrote to ShopFox.

Dear Sir,

I must admit that I am sorry I purchased my machinery from ShopFox. It's not that there is anything wrong with the machines (Dust Collector, 16" Bandsaw, Tablesaw, 12" disk sander) but when a part fails, the down time is totally unacceptable to me. My local dealer (Re-Tool in Greenville, NC) appears to have gone out of business. I need a start capacitor for my dust collector (Model W1685). I can't buy directly from you and I now have no local dealer. I called your office and the only help I received was a list of other dealers. I called a couple of them and they don't sell, or order, parts. One dealer said he could order the capacitor but not until January 3rd, 2011, and he doesn't accept credit cards so I would have to take a half a day to go and pick them up in person. Nonsense! I suppose you have to run your business in a manner that works for you, but so do I. I can't be without my machinery for such an extended period of time. I would love to know why, unlike Grizzley, Delta, and countless others, I can't order parts, by phone, from you. As my machines start to age, I expect to be needing more and more in the way of replacement parts. As it seems you are unwilling, or unable, to meet these simple needs, I am planning on replacing rather than repairing my machinery. I can assure you that, unless some provisions are made that would allow for the direct purchase of parts, that I will not be replacing them with ShopFox.

Sincerely,
Ernest Miller

And this was the extent of their response.

Dear Mr. Miller,

Thank you for your input. We are wholesale only and are unable to parts direct to the general public. We only sell to resale stores. We have provided the following dealer in your area that can order the part:

QUALITY PRODUCTS DIST. 6315 CREEK RD GRIFTON NC 28530 (252) 560-2588

Alternatively, you can order parts via mail order through:

www.woodzone.com

MSC Industrial Supply
800-521-9520

We apologize for any frustration this may cause. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,
Dawna M.
Customer Service Representative

And my response to their response:

Dear Dawna M

You must be kidding. I've already contacted this "dealer" a week ago. He can order parts from you but has none in stock. He also doesn't accept credit cards so I have to go to pick the part up. Let's see - I call him up - he orders the part from you - you mail it to him - he calls me to tell me the part came in. I take 1/2 day away from my work to go and pick it up. Elapsed time: who knows.

Klingspor in Raleigh is also a Shop Fox dealer. They don't stock parts either and they won't, or can't, order them. While I try to find a dealer who has the part I have downtime in my shop. This is totally unacceptable to me and, more than likely, to the almost 5,000 people in my woodworker's forum who are aware of my problem with your company and await hearing of its resolution. I will tell them what I'm telling you. I've junked the dust collector and replaced it with a unit from another company - one that I can get parts from. Knowing what I know now, I will never again purchase a tool from ShopFox. In fact, I can think of about 5,000 people I know who may now feel the same way.

Your machinery is fine, but your customer service is non-existent. Fortunately, ShopFox is not the only game in town. There are others who want my business and respect and value my time.

I've just ordered a new dust collector from Grizzly.

Ernie

 

[jobelenus]

Thanks for the info - customer service is extremely important and if they are unwilling to deal with individuals then I see no reason to risk the aggravation when Grizzly has the same machine....

JO

 

[leftoflefty]

Thanks for this info. I was just about to purchase a SF mini lathe. Glad I read this first (not so glad about your predicament). Guess I'll have to shop around a bit more.

 

[ErnieM]

Just received another communication from ShopFox.

Dear Mr. Miller,

Thank you for your reply. I apologize that this has been such a frustrating experience for you. As I stated earlier, we are a wholesale only company. That means that we are unable to sell direct to the general public. We sell our products exclusively to retail stores. We certainly value and respect your time and your business.

I have spoken to management and we will send you the capacitor at no charge this one time. In the future if you are in need of belts, hardware, etc. you can purchase them through a local hardware store. If the parts are non-consumable parts you can order them from one of the dealers listed below, or another dealer you may find locally or on-line.

There are two capacitors on this machine. Please let us know the part number that you need and we will ship it out immediately at no charge. We will also need your full address to ship the capacitor via UPS Ground. We look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Dawna M.
Customer Service Representative

And my response:

Dear Dawna M.

It's not that you are unable to sell directly to your customers - you are unwilling to do so. You are free to sell your machines and parts to whomever you wish. If you wish to sell only to dealers, by all means continue to do so. I doubt, however, that it is dealers who actually use your machines. As an end-user of ShopFox products, I completely reject the efficacy of your business model.

Please thank 'management' for their generosity in agreeing to send me an $8.00 part free of charge - this one time only! I suppose it's possible that the lack of clarity of my writing is responsible for you completely missing my true complaint. I don't want a free part - I need access to purchase parts when I need them without waiting inordinate amounts of time.

For your information - there is only one capacitor on this machine (model 1685). The machine you're speaking of is the 220v model - not the one I have. Unless, of course, your manual is incorrect.

In closing, I'm no longer in need of this part as I no longer have this machine. If anyone at ShopFox feels the need to discuss this further, I will be here in my shop sweeping the sawdust off of the floor - at least until my new dust collector arrives.

 

[erasmussen]

I bought a shopfox tool from Klingspore, and the motor had problems.
I called the shopfox tech's, they were real helpful and after a few checks they sent me a new motor right away no problems.

 

[ErnieM]

I bought a shopfox tool from Klingspore, and the motor had problems.
I called the shopfox tech's, they were real helpful and after a few checks they sent me a new motor right away no problems.

Earl,

Actually when I first bought my machines I had a problem (minor) with the drill press. I called the ShopFox tech and he talked me through it. That was then, this is now. If you check their website you'll find they have removed the telephone number for tech help. Now you have to send an email. I did. A tech called me back the next day to give me a list of ShopFox dealers but could offer no other help, suggestions, parts, etc. Of course, the dealer list is readily available on their website - I didn't need to talk with a technician to get this information.

Ernie

 

[davejones]

Ernie,

Sorry to hear that you had such a hard time trying to solve this problem. I know that you have moved on, but I would hate for that DC to go to waste over a capacitor. Caps are very simple components, so even if you can't get the exact OEM part it would not be too difficult to find a suitable replacement. I am an electrical engineer and I would be glad to help you find a cap that would work if you want to fix the old unit (even just to sell or offer up for goodwill to NCWW members). I'm sure there are several other members here who are very (electrically) technically capable as well and would likely help if needed/asked.

If you do wish to revive the old DC, the ideal info we would need is the manufacturer's name and part number for the cap. If that isn't known we could still figure it out with some basic specs: cap type, capacitance value, and voltage rating.


Regards,
Dave

 

[ErnieM]

Ernie,

Sorry to hear that you had such a hard time trying to solve this problem. I know that you have moved on, but I would hate for that DC to go to waste over a capacitor. Caps are very simple components, so even if you can't get the exact OEM part it would not be too difficult to find a suitable replacement. I am an electrical engineer and I would be glad to help you find a cap that would work if you want to fix the old unit (even just to sell or offer up for goodwill to NCWW members). I'm sure there are several other members here who are very (electrically) technically capable as well and would likely help if needed/asked.

If you do wish to revive the old DC, the ideal info we would need is the manufacturer's name and part number for the cap. If that isn't known we could still figure it out with some basic specs: cap type, capacitance value, and voltage rating.


Regards,
Dave

Thanks, Dave - I really appreciate your offer. Actually, I did find a suitable replacement capacitor. Alan Schaffter and I took the DC apart. It turns out the problem is not with the capacitor at all. The only problem we found was a pitted centrifugal switch which we cleaned and reinstalled. The problem persists. I'm using this as an excuse to upgrade to a more powerful unit. I'm sure the machine is repairable and I've offered it, free of charge, to an NCWW member who has taken me up on the offer.

The dust collector is no longer the problem. I can live, for a while, without one. The question is what happens if I need a part for my tablesaw or bandsaw? Parts availability is my primary concern.

Ernie

 

[Ken Massingale]

Aren't grizzly and Shopfox the same outfit?

 

[Don Alexander]

sure doesn't seem like a very workable business model for Shop Fox , seriously limits the market for them because i don't know any business that will find extended downtime waiting on parts an acceptable option

it appears as if they are working under the false assumption that their dealer network is going to be able to satisfactorily deal with the situation ; in my opinion they are not likely to survive for long if they can't/won't make fixing their tools a bit more convenient for paying customers

just my 2 cents

 

[ErnieM]

Aren't grizzly and Shopfox the same outfit?

Yes - which makes the situation even more puzzling?!?!?!:dontknow:

Don - I couldn't agree with you more.

Ernie

 

[erasmussen]

Guess I was lucky, glad I just have 1 shop fox tool.

 

[cptully]

Ernie,

I am sorry to hear that you have had so much trouble with ShopFox...I have long considered buying ShopFox tools, but have put off the purchases due to budget limitations. I am now very glad that you have shared their responses to your letters. Despite the good reviews they get, they are now at the bottom of my list of potential suppliers for shop machines...

Question to the group (especially the moderators):
Should we (NCWW) send a corporate letter to ShopFox to share the discussions of their poor customer service here on the NCWW site? This might push them to consider direct sales to end users of replacement parts. If we send such a letter I think that it should contain demographics (number of members, and a rough break down of where we live) to show how large an impact on their potential market, and we might also consider copying this letter to all of the dealers in the geography officially covered by NCWW. It might also be interesting to point them to the threads containing replies from the owner of WorkSharp.

Chris

 

[petebucy4638]

That sort of BS is frustrating. That is why I have never been a big Shop Fox fan. Grizzly, on the other hand will ship parts for any of their tools directly to you.

In the case of a capacitor, you should be able to walk into any Grainger or electric motor supply house and have them take the specs from the old capacitor and hand you a new one. Capacitors are usually not all that exotic; they are pretty easy to replace. Where you would get into big trouble is if you needed an impeller or something that could only be purchased from Shop Fox.

When I ordered my Oneida dust collector I was half tempted to buy a Shop Fox model that Grizzly had on sale. The price was good, but I had my doubts about service and parts.

Pete

 

[mlzettl]

Ernie,

Well hopefully you haven't started some type of jinx. Yesterday, my 6 mo. old ShopFox planer developed a vibration that became quickly worse over the course of a couple of minutes. A short investigation revealed that the motor fan had self destructed. I think that the set screw had not been sufficiently tightened at the factory, as I found it lying on the floor within the cabinet when I opened things up. After removing what remained of the fan from the motor shaft, the machine ran well without vibration. Of course, it cannot be run like this for more than a few minutes without overheating the motor.

This occurred last evening just as I was about to leave the shop, so it was too late to call Rick at WW Source where I purchased the planer. I did send an e-mail to ShopFox, so I am anxious to receive their response, as the planer is still under warranty.

This all brings me back to your frustrations and the ludicrous policies of ShopFox. The thought occurred to me that it may be worthwile if you posted your e-mails, and the summary of your problems on the Sawmill Creek forum. Shiraz Balolia, the president and owner of Grizzly, and presumably ShopFox, follows that forum. I have seen him personally respond to issues with Grizzly. Perhaps if enough woodworkers are made aware of this absurd policy, and indicate their unwillingness to consider ShopFox for future tool purchases, they will see the error of their ways.

I plan on talking with Rick this morning as well. If he has not read this thread, I will urge him to do so. Pressure from their distributors would be useful as well.

I did note that the address of ShopFox is exactly the same as Grizzly, at least for their PA warehouse. The ShopFox website also touts their excellent customer service, fully stocked warehouses, and fast shipping. Seems there is a disconnect here.

I will post later after I have heard from ShopFox.

Matt

 

[ErnieM]

Matt

My powers must be strengthening. I've always had the ability to mess up my own machines, but now it seems I've managed to spread my negative influence to your machine.:wsmile:

Seriously, I'm sorry to hear of this problem with your planer. I doubt you'll have any trouble because the planer is under warranty. I didn't have any problems with ShopFox when my machines were still covered. I wonder if this is coincidental. Warranty=fine, out-of-warranty=forget it.

Ernie

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Question to the group (especially the moderators):
Should we (NCWW) send a corporate letter to ShopFox to share the discussions of their poor customer service here on the NCWW site? This might push them to consider direct sales to end users of replacement parts. If we send such a letter I think that it should contain demographics (number of members, and a rough break down of where we live) to show how large an impact on their potential market, and we might also consider copying this letter to all of the dealers in the geography officially covered by NCWW. It might also be interesting to point them to the threads containing replies from the owner of WorkSharp.

Chris

I don't know if a formal letter is necessary, but I would think the shear size of NCWW (almost 5,000 members) would get the attention of any conscientious supplier. If ShopFox, or any supplier, wants to know what people are saying about their products/service, all they have to do is search Google. In fact, if you search using your member name, you'll find some of your own post on this web site.

If I were a manufacturer / dealer / supplier in an industry, w/ a number of head-to-head competitors, I'd constantly be searching to see what people were saying about me. But that's just me. :widea: A few years ago I posted a comment on another forum about a problem I was having w/ a nail gun from Campbell-Hausfeld. Low-and-behold, the product manager for that product contacted me directly and ended up sending me two different guns to replace the defective one, free of charge. Now that was good customer service.

Since we know from Ernie's experience that an email to ShopFox actually got read, if someone really wants to bring this to their attention, try sending an email w/ a link to this thread. Point out the size of the membership. But like I said above, if they cared they would already be searching the web for comments about themselves.

Bill

 

[Gotcha6]

Matt

My powers must be strengthening. I've always had the ability to mess up my own machines, but now it seems I've managed to spread my negative influence to your machine.:wsmile:

Seriously, I'm sorry to hear of this problem with your planer. I doubt you'll have any trouble because the planer is under warranty. I didn't have any problems with ShopFox when my machines were still covered. I wonder if this is coincidental. Warranty=fine, out-of-warranty=forget it.

Ernie

Ernie, I wonder if your inability to get parts might have anything to do with the local distributors having a reluctance to add or order anything into stock to be included in EOY inventory? Don't have a clue about the credit card issue.......

 

[Kyle]

Ernie, I wonder if your inability to get parts might have anything to do with the local distributors having a reluctance to add or order anything into stock to be included in EOY inventory? Don't have a clue about the credit card issue.......

You hit the nail on the head.

In regards to these parts, I have found most to be drop in replacements from their counterparts and easily replaced with like components if you have the manual and specs.

Its not an opportunity its a learning experience.

 

[TV]

Ernie, I know this may not help now but I have a shop fox dust collector, 220V. The start capacitor went out on it and I contacted Grizzly to get the part replaced. Grizzly was very quick on handling the problem. The NCWW that gets the DC may try contacting Grizzly for future parts.

JMTCW adjusted for inflation.

tv