Solutions for correction of panel separation

[mshel]

Lorriane,

I think Travis has hit the nail on the head with his advice.

Don't get down on yourself, I think you have come a long way and have made some real nice pieces. If you don't make mistakes, you will never learn cause you won't be doing anything. I still make mistakes and I guess the true test of a craftsman is how he corrects his boo boos. Good luck. Let us know how this turns out.

MIke

 

[lwhughes149]

Michael and all who have been following this thread, I finally took the jigsaw to my walnut secretary and all went well. Remember from the beginning I glued up the divides only to find that they were cut too short in height? When the cut was completed, the board separated bringing the bow out of the rail on the bottom. I was able to remove both pieces of wood without much difficult and have only a couple of places that will need cleaning with a chisel. Now I tackle the sides with their glue-ups. Before I get to that would someone give advide on attaching the web frame to the inside dados with nails. It is difficult at this time to get a hammer and nail. I am now looking for a way to get glue into the front 2 inches because the opening is about 1/4 inch. suggestions?

 

[DavidF]

Michael and all who have been following this thread, I finally took the jigsaw to my walnut secretary and all went well. Remember from the beginning I glued up the divides only to find that they were cut too short in height? When the cut was completed, the board separated bringing the bow out of the rail on the bottom. I was able to remove both pieces of wood without much difficult and have only a couple of places that will need cleaning with a chisel. Now I tackle the sides with their glue-ups. Before I get to that would someone give advide on attaching the web frame to the inside dados with nails. It is difficult at this time to get a hammer and nail. I am now looking for a way to get glue into the front 2 inches because the opening is about 1/4 inch. suggestions?

Hi Lorraine,

Plenty of good advice here, but I would be just a little wary of the strength of a 2" long end grain glue up of the front rail into the side. I still would advocate a mechanical fastening of some sort, but a pocket screw into the side panel will not have much grip either as the dado has removed 50% of the side thickness were the screw will bite in so at the most you will have a few threads into the side panel. I agree about the centre divider though; that is a definate no, not if the full length is glued; however, I wouldn't bother gluing up a new divider. Between the divider and the web frame is a long grain to long grain joint and that could be glued for the first two inches and will be a strong joint; and again just glue the first two inches of the divider to the top and leave the rest floating. Remember that because the front will be glued, as the top shrinks the divider will move backwards and you must leave room at the back of the cabinet for this or cut the divider short by 1/2"

 

[cpowell]

Hi Lorraine,

Plenty of good advice here, but I would be just a little wary of the strength of a 2" long end grain glue up of the front rail into the side. I still would advocate a mechanical fastening of some sort, but a pocket screw into the side panel will not have much grip either as the dado has removed 50% of the side thickness were the screw will bite in so at the most you will have a few threads into the side panel. I agree about the centre divider though; that is a definate no, not if the full length is glued; however, I wouldn't bother gluing up a new divider. Between the divider and the web frame is a long grain to long grain joint and that could be glued for the first two inches and will be a strong joint; and again just glue the first two inches of the divider to the top and leave the rest floating. Remember that because the front will be glued, as the top shrinks the divider will move backwards and you must leave room at the back of the cabinet for this or cut the divider short by 1/2"

I agree with David on avoiding the end grain glueup at the ends of the front face frame rails. Lorraine, if you could get a syringe (5 - 10 cc) with a LARGE and LONG needle and slide it into the gap between the web and side dado you could inject glue between the side web frame member and the side wall. You need the glue surface to be past where the horizontal face frame rail member extends. A catheter may work but a needle would be pretty straightforward. This would be a cross grain glueup but should be stronger than an end grain glueup. You only need to glue a couple inches. You could practice with the syringe where you can see to get a feel for how fast the glue comes out to gauge how to perform the actual injection. Once glue is injected, clamp and wait a few hours for the glue to dry.

It looks like you used shallow dados in the sides (1/4 inch?), unless they are stopped at the front. That would leave you with 1/2 inch available side wall thickness. If so, you could put a single screw centered on the glued area on each side with 3/8 inch of bite. Admittedly, that is not much but maybe it will be enough. I have been using serrated square drive screws from McFeely's (washer head saw tooth screws) that have a tremendous bite. They cut their own threads and I have not seen any splitting. Whether you can manage to get a drill/driver in that space is uncertain. It looks pretty tight.

While the outer panel would be allowed to expand/contract from the point where it's glued/screwed, the amount of movement you'll see towards the front of the case is negligible over a two inch span.

I'm not so sure you have a problem at the rear sides. If your rear panel is plywood then you shouldn't see any expansion that would tend to make the piece "wider" at the rear of the case. All of the expansion/contraction will be front-to-back, making the piece shallower/deeper. So, if the back is anchored across the width, there is no risk of the web frame separating at the case rear. Just make sure the sides are free to move and the web frame will slide in your dado. If the back is solid and will move then disregard this paragraph.

Chuck

 

[lwhughes149]

Dave and Chuck thank you both for the information, I will be using it in the coming days. Dave, disregard my e-mail, I will keep all posted. Lorraine

 

[KC7CN]

Travis, do I understand you to say that I should remove the dividers and glue up panels as I did in the side of the cabinet and put them back in place? They are running vertically where the sides are horizontally. Will they come out without tearing up the cabinet?

If you should decide to remove the dividers, consider making a cut down the center of the divider with a saber saw. I know this sounds drastic, but replacing the entire divider would be my first choice.

-Don

 

[lwhughes149]

Don, I made that cut and the dividers are now out of the cabinet which by the way remains in my den so as not to remove it from its environment. It was suggested in the beginning of making this cabinet that I remove the dividers or I would never be happy with the end result. Well, I only removed them when it became obvious that I would have no choice. I am learning a lot of lessons here guys and girls but that is the way to become a great woodworker. I am reading in detail the two post prior to yours Don as I work my way toward correcting this problems. I had a suggestion made to me yesterday by a local woodworker that I gave a lot of thought to but as I said, I am reading the two post prior to yours before making a final decision. My husband is bring syringes and large needles home today for glue up of the side panels. If you were to see the cabinet you would notice that I attached the very top of the cabinet to the sides with screws covered with 3/8 inch dowels. They look great and are holding together well. The person yesterday suggestioned possibly drilling into the outside of the side panels and placing screws into the dadoed rails and covering the screws with dowels. Of course the screws would have holes a bit larger so the side to move. It would look nice because it would follow the pattern on the top but. Again I am going back to the last two post before making a final decision. I would like to drill from the inside and screw the web frame into place. Thanks to all for the attention and guidance. Once again, I couldn't do this without you. Lorraine

 

[KC7CN]

Hi Lorraine,

I'm happy to hear the suggestion worked. Sometimes you have to "think out of the box". I learned this technique during the restoration of an antique dresser, that I affectionally call the Dumpster Dresser. You guessed it, I found it in a dumpster.

I used this dresser for shop storage 3-4 years, always trying to figure how to fix it. My solution was a circular saw; I cut the leg right up the middle; with the help of a chisel, the old leg was easy to remove. Here's the end result: My Photo Gallery - Restored Dresser - Powered by PhotoPost

-Don

PS. Not sure how long this link and picture will work; Steve will be moving photos.

 

[Travis Porter]

Impressive to say the least.

 

[lwhughes149]

I am impressed as well. That oak chest can sit in my house anytime you get tired of looking at it.:lol: Seriously, it is beautiful, you never know what the dumpster is hiding. It pays to look.

 

[KC7CN]

All -- thanks for the nice comments. I found the antique dresser in our apartment dumpster when we were moving. I think it was made in the 1930's. I couldn't find the missing foot!

Lorraine - - I didn't mean to hi-jack your post; sorry about that! Your secretary is beautiful! You can fix this minor problem.

-Don

 

[lwhughes149]

Don, think nothing of it. I was pleased to see your trash find. When you have a minute I will tell you what the husband and I have found at the dumpsters. I have clamps in the house and a needle ready for glue. Think good thoughts.

 

[lwhughes149]

One last question as I finish repairing my cabinet side. I have glued the frame into the dados and now ready to attach the screws to the frame. I have put one screw into the frame and into the inside of the walnut side. I now need to put one or two additional screws in. Question. I am drilling into a 2" frame and 1/4 into the side of the walnut. Because I want the side to be able to move I want the hold in the 2" frame to be slightly larger than the hole and the 1/4" hole that the screw enters in the walnut, would I not also need it to be slightly larger because it is the part that would move. Lorraine

 

[Travis Porter]

You want the screw part in the frame to be enlarged not the part that enters the walnut. That way the screw bites into the walnut but the frame "floats" so it will allow the walnut to move.

 

[lwhughes149]

Thank you Travis.

 

[lwhughes149]

I would like to say thanks to all who have viewed this post and all who have been helping me along the way. The cabinet is repaired and back in its place in the great room. Thanks again for the help and the wisdom learned. Ain't woodworking fun!:eusa_clap :eusa_danc :-D :drunken_s :eusa_whis :roll:

 

[DavidF]

Ain't woodworking fun!:eusa_clap :eusa_danc :-D :drunken_s :eusa_whis :roll:

Sometimes, NO!:lol: