Small box joinery problem

[merrill77]

I'm working on the prototype for a small box and I'm having trouble picking the joinery. In the picture below, you can see the front and one side as it should appear when assembled. The front is 1/4" thick and the side is 3/8". Because the front is offset from the end of the side, fingers and dovetails are out. A mortise/tenon is possible, but I don't want a thru tenon to be exposed on the side...which leaves a tenon only ~1/4" deep is possible. If it fit well enough, that should be acceptable for this application, though I'm not confident in my ability to make such a small tenon fit perfectly. I'm also considering a sliding dovetail, cut up from the bottom. I would need to fill the dovetail channel at the bottom, since the front would leave this revealed.

I've considered a doweled butt joint, using brass dowels exposed on the sides, but I'm not fond of that option, either from an asthetic or construction standpoint.

Any other options I should be considering?

 

[toolferone]

I think the M&T is the way to go and plenty strong enough for a small box like that.

 

[Mike Davis]

Double through tenon with contrasting wedges?

 

[Joe Scharle]

I've done something similiar with dowels but IIRC, I set the bottom into stopped grooves in all four sides.

I just remembered that the sides were not doweled but I used M&T for the side ends, on the box in question. But the bottom was set into stopped grooves.
It was a on a pen box that I used the brass dowels.

 

[dkeller_nc]

I'm working on the prototype for a small box and I'm having trouble picking the joinery. In the picture below, you can see the front and one side as it should appear when assembled. The front is 1/4" thick and the side is 3/8". Because the front is offset from the end of the side, fingers and dovetails are out. A mortise/tenon is possible, but I don't want a thru tenon to be exposed on the side...which leaves a tenon only ~1/4" deep is possible. If it fit well enough, that should be acceptable for this application, though I'm not confident in my ability to make such a small tenon fit perfectly. I'm also considering a sliding dovetail, cut up from the bottom. I would need to fill the dovetail channel at the bottom, since the front would leave this revealed.

I've considered a doweled butt joint, using brass dowels exposed on the sides, but I'm not fond of that option, either from an asthetic or construction standpoint.

Any other options I should be considering?

Chris - While traditional joinery is my preference, I'm going to go off the reservation here and suggest a "modern" solution - biscuits. Ordinarily, I don't think biscuits are strong enough to substitute for a M&T, but that's in a large piece of furniture that's subject to a lot of racking forces, and usually involves cross-grain construction (such as where an apron meets a leg).

For a small box like this, though, a couple of biscuits are going to be more than adequate to last forever, particularly because you've got a parallel grain joint.

You may need to consider getting a mini-biscuit joiner. In general I don't like Ryobi tools (too cheap - in more ways than just the purchase price), but they do make a mini-biscuit joiner that would be perfect for this application.

Another alternaive would be pocket screws, though of course they'd show from the inside.

 

[merrill77]

I think the M&T is the way to go and plenty strong enough for a small box like that.

Double through tenon with contrasting wedges?

I'm reluctantly leaning that way. This is only a mock-up, but I think I'm still going to need some practice before going at these pieces.

I've done something similiar with dowels but IIRC, I set the bottom into stopped grooves in all four sides.

I just remembered that the sides were not doweled but I used M&T for the side ends, on the box in question. But the bottom was set into stopped grooves.

I think that is what I'm going to need to do for the bottom - probably using plywood so I can glue it all around. Which reminds me...I have a pin nailer. Nah...I don't think I would ever forgive myself for using a nailed butt joint on box with a AAA curly maple top :>

 

[merrill77]

Chris - While traditional joinery is my preference, I'm going to go off the reservation here and suggest a "modern" solution - biscuits.

Hadn't considered that! I have a biscuit joiner and I use it a lot...but as you pointed out, I'd need the baby version for this. Hard to justify a new tool for this project.

:rotflm:

Did I say that out loud?

 

[McRabbet]

How about using a Keyhole Router Bit in the taller "side" piece and a pair of round head screws in the end grain of the shorter "front". Another option would be a tapered sliding dovetail, but it is lots more difficult to make.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Hadn't considered that! I have a biscuit joiner and I use it a lot...but as you pointed out, I'd need the baby version for this. Hard to justify a new tool for this project.

:rotflm:

Did I say that out loud?

Hmm - I'd agree on a "one-off". If you're going to make more, though, these mini-biscuit joiners are really cheap. Sears has a Craftsman version that's $70:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=biscuit+joiner&x=21&y=10

 

[jglord]

Another option for you to consider is the miller mini x dowels - designed to join 1/2" material. Mini X dowels are available in walnut. I've used miller dowels on several projects and they are fast, strong and easy. Woodcraft has them available here for $24.99 per hundred.

 

[FredP]

you can get a smaller blade for some biskit joiners. check your manual to see if they have a ff [?] blade for it. lots cheaper than another tool and you will have it for the next time.:icon_thum

 

[froglips]

Nails rule! Without nails, how would I hit my thumb with a hammer?

Have you ever tried what Lee Valley calls and "invisible nail".

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32683&cat=1,411820

For a one off, you could try it with a small gouge.

Jim On Biscuits: If you didn't wanna buy a new biscuit cutter, you could get a narrow slot cutter. Route stopped slots in the inside face of one board and the edge of the butt side. Just want to be pretty accurate with the slots.

Jim

 

[russellellis]

i tried replying earlier. guess i hit the wrong button or it got lost in internets neverland.
you dont have to buy a mini/small biscuit jointer. you can make your own biscuits on the bandsaw. to make the grooves, ive used a 5 inch blade on a circular saw. one oversized biscuit per side. the good thing about using the same stock to make your own biscuit is that you wont have to worry if it might swell and show thru on the face.

 

[erasmussen]

As thin as the front is, I would do a stopped dado.
JMTCW

 

[DIYGUY]

I vote for a sliding dovetail ...

 

[DavidF]

I would go for a stopped dado up from the bottom. If you are worried about the fit then make the dado slightly narrower than the piece going into it and put a small shoulder on the front side to hide the edges of the dado.

 

[boxxmaker]

OK heres how I make mine (boxxmaker) 1st I cut all the pieces,then cut dado's in the front and rear panel the thickness of the sides.I then just cut a 1/8th groove about 1/8th " deep around the bottom of all for pieces.I then just glue the two side panels to the back of the front,then slide the bottom in,then attatch the back and all I use is glue.I just use tape to hold it in place untill the glue dries,just be sure and check it for square before you set it aside for drying.You don't need anything else.I'v been assembling them like this for about 15 yrs an never had a failure.I love the dovetails but the only purpose they serve in small boxes is decorative.(which I do like).