Refinishing old poplar hutch must stain - please help

[sgtdave]

I am refinishing an old kitchen hutch top that was originally made from mostly poplar with hard pine shelves and a few minor pieces of trim from oak.

I need to lighten the old wood and even it out some. I plan on using oxalic acid for that. Any tips you can provide for that is also welcome.

The owner (after much discussion during which my persuavive powers failed) wants it stained in a lighter color. I am looking at some maple stains like Minwax antique maple gel stain or colonial maple oil. I have not finalized this, its just to give you guys a ballpark feel for the color area I am looking at.

I need tips on staining and most of all what brand and type to use. I know there are some really good choices but I don't do a lot of staining variety, so your expertise is welcome. In the past I have used some Minwax and a lot of WATCO oils. I have never used dyes and am not sure how to use/adjust the color.

Thanks for your help.

 

[CrealBilly]

I have subscribed to this thread so I can watch and learn.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

 

[Hmerkle]

Dave,
I suggest against staining a mixed wood piece of furniture...

Here is a nice post from Chris Schwarz;
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...hwarz-blog/friends-finisher-glazes-toners-wax

I think that will whet your appitite to move toward his suggestion;
http://www.shopwoodworking.com/understanding-wood-finishing?lid=CSpwbl101314

Bob's book is great and Michael Dresdner is another knowledgeable guy in this task filled with potential pitfalls!

 

[Endless Pursuit]

I hope you can post a photo of a very successful project.

 

[RobS.]

I used Minwax "golden oak" on a poplar jelly cupboard, the bottom half of a poplar hoosier cabinet with luan plywood replacement door panels and on 2 pine louvered doors. All are in my kitchen and the color matches very well.

 

[ehpoole]

In my experience, only the darker stains with at least some reddish tint to them (such as Mahogany) tend to turn out well with Poplar (especially Poplar) and many Pines if your intent is to use traditional stains. In my experience, contrary to the above, Golden Oak looks absolutely atrocious on Poplar and only moderately better on many pines (but to each their own, YMMV). If these are the tints you really want you may fair better with a tinted gel stain than with a traditional pigmented stain.

Both woods are typically highly prone to splotching so some pre-sealing with a blotch controller may well be required (this is most notable on large finish areas, so small test pieces can be deceiving in this respect). Controlling the application and removal of the sealer is critical to maintaining an even stain throughout. It will also have the effect of lightening the tint of any stain you apply afterwards due to reduced penetration, so you may find that stopping sanding a little earlier while on a coarser grit helps to offset some of the lightening if it proves undesirable. Otherwise the lightening is a necessary evil when using a blotch controller with traditional pigmented stains. For this reason you may also wish to consider tinted gel stains as an alternative.

Whatever you decide prepare some scrap lumber of each species and finish it identically (exact same sanding regimen) and test out your proposed stain formulas before you apply anything to the final piece... It is better to identify any problems on test pieces you can discard than on the final piece. When you find what works for you, then move on to the final piece. Just do not be afraid to invest the time to experiment first!

 

[Tarhead]

I've had bad luck with stains on raw wood. The grain gets partially hidden and it's splotch city on Pine. After bleaching I suggest using some filler on the Oak grain using wall spackling mixed with burnt sienna acrylic hobby paint mixed in. Let it dry 3-4 hours and knock back w/220g. Repeat until the grain is filled. Apply a conditioner or 1/2lb shellac base as a conditioner then a dye coat of a primary color in your Antique Maple (yellow would be my choice). Then glaze with a dark reddish brown gel stain and wipe it off leaving a little behind. Go over the lighter woods multiple times to even out and blend the different woods together. You didn't say what the piece will be used for but I would use a solvent based top coat over the glaze like spray lacquer...rattle cans of Watco or auto clear coat if you don't have a spray rig.

This is a situation where Milk paint or a matte Latex enamel might be a better choice.

 

[Rick M]

I would use dye and possibly add it to the finish as a toner to even out color between species. Dye is easy to apply and adjust. I mix it in a squirt bottle and spritz it on. If I want it darker, I put more on. That's it. Of course, always test first on scrap.

 

[Jeff]

A few representative pics will be helpful for seeing what you're looking at before considering what to do.

I need to lighten the old wood and even it out some. I plan on using oxalic acid for that. Any tips you can provide for that is also welcome.

Be careful what you wish for. The cure can be more detrimental than doing nothing but once it's done there's no going back and you're in a mell of a hess.
There are several bleaching agents and each is specific for what it will or will not do. In any event, they each have to be neutralized and thoroughly rinsed with distilled water-read hose it down out in the yard.

http://www.antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm

The owner (after much discussion during which my persuavive powers failed) wants it stained in a lighter color.

Non-woodworkers don't have an understanding of the limits of what we can do with a given wood species. There's only so much that can be done with tulip poplar and its natural appearance; no amount of bleaching is going to change that appearance.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/poplar.htm

Forget the stains/dyes and consider 100% dewaxed shellac, specifically types A, B, and D in the pics below. No splotching, durable, and easily repaired if necessary. It'll also highlight the grain/figure which may be what your customer will like for an old American heirloom piece.

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/products-we-offer/finishes/shellac/

 

[RobS.]

I think your response is absolutely atrocious. So basically you're calling me a liar. I'll be sure to never invite you to my house.

My kitchen turned out very nice, thank you.

 

[Jeff]

I think your response is absolutely atrocious. So basically you're calling me a liar. I'll be sure to never invite you to my house.

My kitchen turned out very nice, thank you.

I don't think that Ethan meant anything detrimental. Your experience with the golden oak finish is what it is and you're a happy camper. Ethan's was different and he's not a happy camper.

We all learn from one another and share our experiences and that's welcome along with the critique. That's a good thing.

Don't take it personally.

 

[RobS.]

Don't take it personally.

Gee, it seems to have been directed right at me. How do I not take it personally? Maybe Ethan should think before he types. He's still not welcome at my house - I wouldn't want to make him look at anything as atrocious as my kitchen.

 

[CrealBilly]

Gee, it seems to have been directed right at me. How do I not take it personally? Maybe Ethan should think before he types. He's still not welcome at my house - I wouldn't want to make him look at anything as atrocious as my kitchen.

Still watching and learning.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke