Reality creeps in

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Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
As a novice with hand tools, I read the threads of making full pieces of furniture just using those tools, and dream of doing it myself. Okay, so one of the talents needed is using a handsaw to "rough out" the boards, as well as to resaw for those fine looking bookmatched panels.

Yesterday I was working on my walnut table, and with the 100% humidity, the wood in the pieces was 'moving" every time I did something to them, so I decided it was a good time to make some good clamping cauls for this glue up, as well as as for future work, so I wouldn't keep "cobbling something together". Looking around, all I could find in hardwood of enough size was an old red oak billet I had hacked out of a log with a chain saw. Too heavy and rough to push through the bandsaw, so I decided it was a good time to practice some hand tool skills.

I have two 26" handsaws: One Stanley that I have filed for cross-cut (that has given Jeff cause for mirth on occasion), and one Disston (found 20 years ago laying in the road covered with rust, but not an antique as it has a plastic handle) filed for rip cut. Pulled out the Disston, drew a straight line down the billet and went to sawing:


and sawing:


and ended up with this over an hour later (sawn face is on top):


But due to my lack of skill it was not flat so ended up back with the hand planes:


Lessons learned:

1. I theenk I need a bigger saw! I really can't see me sawing out 6 cauls out of this with what I have. 7 TPI is slow going and a stiffer blade would have helped. Now that I have flat face, the bandsaw will be getting a workout.
2. I need to do this more often as I got much better after 1/3 of the way through. Finally remembered to let the saw do the work and just push it with the web of my thumb/forefinger instead of forcing it
3. If I attempt this again, it will be in the winter when the shop is a 55 degrees, rather than 85 degrees and 100% humidity. I figure I will start in coveralls and end up in T-shirt and shorts!!
4. I also need to use my planes more often. Yesterday, after sawing, I attacked it all hot and sweaty and wanting to "get 'er dun!" Ended up with a twist and bow. Went out today and looked at what I had and made fairly quick work of getting it flat.

SO, while the dream is still there, constantly fed by my "heroes" on this site like Mike Davis, etc, it will be a while before I tackle a "log to loveseat" project just using hand tools.

Hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the neander wannabee club.:sad11::sad11:but I welcome any advice toward ways to do it better.

Go
 

Vanilla Gorilla

New User
Marco Principio
Let me preface this by saying I don't know what I'm talking about, but if it had been me I think I would have tried splitting pieces out of it rather than sawing. Sure there's more waste, and you spend more time with the planes, but since you have to flatten it anyway, it seems that the time/effort you save from not having to saw would be worth it in the long run. But that would require a froe. Hey, new tools, why not!
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Been thinking about getting an old leaf spring to make a froe. Still looking for a good price on a 32"+ one man timber saw that I could file for rip cut. I tried splitting some out (wedge and axe) but it does not come out flat. Tree grew on a hillside so the grain is not straight.

Go
 
M

McRabbet

Since Dozer said "old" when describing the oak billet, I wouldn't envy anyone that attacked it with a froe -- much tougher than with green stock...
 

Ozzie-x

New User
Randy
Mark, Have you been getting enough spinach in your diet lately? You gotta get those Popeye arms going to do this hand work. You have chosen a very difficult wood and a big hand sawing job that would be difficult for anyone, so don't get discouraged. I can offer a couple of pointers that you already know. It pretty much boils down to the tools and your technique. First, the saw- 7 TPI is too fine for a rip saw for this type work, especially for ripping of dry oak (as you found out :tinysmile_tongue_t:). The plastic handle, "previously rusty", "thicker blade" makes me question the quality of the saw and the sharpening. I usually {always} pass on the plastic handle ones. {My Dad has a plastic handle Disston that's not worth throwing away} Plastic handles are usually used on a cheap saw, even in a Disston. Find yourself a nice old Disston D-8 ripsaw with say 4 TPI, say pre 1940. E.C. Atkins, Simmons and others also made some nice saws. When you find your 'new" saw, slick up the blade and remove any rust, and smooth it with emory cloth, steel wool, etc. This will allow the blade to slide easily through the kerf. If you're planing to pursue a career of ripping seasoned oak, I would put a light set in the teeth and keep the blade waxed well. Get the set exactly the same on both sides also. Make sure you sharpen it correctly and get both sides exactly the same or it will tend to trail off (cut crooked) regardless of your sawing technique. Heavily wax the blade after you sharpen it. Not only will this will help the blade glide through the kerf, but will protect the blade from rust, especially if you rip any green sappy wood.

You mentioned a technique tid-bit that is one of my sayings that I tell people I'm trying to teach and also remind myself when I'm working with hand tools. Your job is to guide the tool, it's the tool's job to actually do the cutting. So keep your focus on guiding and directing the tool correctly. A good quality, sharp and well maintained hand tool will do it's job if you use it and guide it correctly. Excess force and pressure on the tool will actually be counter-productive because this can cause the tool to not cut straight or not make a smooth cut, split out, damage the tool, etc., not to mention make you tired a lot faster and increasing your aggravation level. Generally, If you're having to force the saw (or any hand tool) to cut, something is wrong, and your time will be better spent correcting the problem. Plus, patience and preserverance is a must when using hand tools, (especially when ripping big seasoned oak chunks by hand :eek:) Another thing is that a lot of folks that normally use power tools get impatient with hand tools. Yes, hand tools do often take longer and quite often are very tiring, and we just want to get a particular task done so we can move on with the project. The nostalgia wears off fairly quickly sometimes with some of these tools and techniques. Sometimes you just need to take a breather and collect your wits. Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into a book, but hopefully there's soem tib-bits that will help someone.:icon_thum
 

froglips

New User
Jim Campbell
I'm quite impressed! Thats a lot of hard work!

You might want to look at a frame/bow saw. The kerf is much thinner and you have lots more teeth.

I also see two man pit saws/misery whips selling cheap at garage sales and auctions. A saw like that, a few good friends and plenty of cold beer might be another answer :)

Were you sawing on a low sawbench? An 18 to 23" bench is much more in tune with hand sawing of this kind.

Can I be the first to say "you go Go!"

Jim
 

Trent Mason

New User
Trent Mason
That is some HARD work you're doing there Go. :eek: I'm impressed! An hour of that and I would be laying on the floor. :swoon:
 

4yanks

New User
Willie
You're a better man than me! I love hand tool work, but stick to surface preparation and joinery with them. Good luck.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I don't know how my name got thrown in here, I wouldn't try that under duress. But, you did and got 'er done! I'm proud of you for the effort.

For the record, I'm not a hand tool specialist.

I'm more of a proponent of get it done with anything available. I probably would have used a chain saw on that beast. Then a hand power planer to get it close to flat. Rough work requires rough tools.

Randy and some of the others could teach me a lot about hand tools and have already. But I am too old and time is too precious for me to revert to them entirely. I'll use hand tools where they are most appropriate and efficient and power tools when they are available and make the most sense.

That said, I will be looking for a 4 tooth pre 40s Diston rip saw. :rotflm:
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
I have an old fancy wood handle Disston rip saw. I don't use it much (actually pretty much not at all anymore) because of other tools I prefer. I finally got a "real" bandsaw and riser kit a while back, so these days I will power that kind of job. But even before that, I got a Zeta blade - the King Rip model - from Tashiro hardware. It's a Japanese style pull saw. The thinner kerf is a big part of why it is so much faster to cut with, but I think the sharpness and the pull action contribute also. I am back and forth about which is easier to keep on track. I find it easier to start a cut exactly where I want and aimed exactly at the angle I planned with the pull saw but it seems a little more prone to straying as you cut. You can control that, but you have to pay very close attention.

Oh yeah, I would say it is almost twice as fast on a long cutting job. The cutting speed is probably "only" 50% faster, but it requires less effort so you don't stop as much.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Thank you all for the tips, comments, and encouragement!!. If it hadn't been for all my siblings getting together at our place for the first reunion in 7 years, I would have been up at Ed Hobbs' place for the MWTCA fest and would probably now have both a Disston and a froe. (I want the froe for walking sticks, and the saw because I have several even larger chunks of this oak. This one was a little over 100 lbs, but the others are 2 to 3 times larger, and are so rough because of my lack of skill with my 16" chain saw!!) Hum-m-m. There is that "lack of skill" thing again. (Note to self: you need to practice more dummy!!)

Anyway, if anyone gets a line on a decent Disston, give me a shout. My B'day is coming up in a couple of months, so the CFO should be okay with me parting with up to $61 (one for every year) for "new" tools. :rolf::rolf:

Go
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Anyway, if anyone gets a line on a decent Disston, give me a shout. My B'day is coming up in a couple of months, so the CFO should be okay with me parting with up to $61 (one for every year) for "new" tools. :rolf::rolf:

Go

I have that old Disston I don't use. I think shipping from Cary to Goldsboro will be a bit under your limit and nothing if we find some "ponies".
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Unless someone tells me every other one like this was destroyed and it is now worth a zillion dollars, all I ask is postage or that you arrange for transfer if someone is going out that way. Just pay it forward - give something you aren't using to someone else here or make a site donation. In this case, you are looking for a very specific item that I knew I had just lying around. When I looked into it a few years ago, it wasn't worth much as a collector tool but well thought of as a user tool.

disston.jpg

disston1.jpg
 
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