Pen Turning Question

[Dutchman]

I have been helping my son get started turning some pens. We bought a mandrel and some pen kits. After we bored the blanks, the brass sleeves don't seem to set up tight in the blanks. We are using a 9mm bit that was reccomended and CA instant glue. We scuffed the brass sleeves a little for better adhesion, but they are not setting up tight. How long should I leave the to dry, it says instant. Should I try something else like a two part expoxy? The pen blanks tend to spin some on the mandrel, any tips to eliminate this or is strictly related to loose brass sleeves.
Also, I have seen folks mention a CA finish on some of thier pens. How exactly do you apply this to the pen.
THanks for the help.
Buddy

 

[TracyP]

I use medium ca and let mine set up for about 15 to 20 minutes before milling the ends.

 

[ScottM]

Buddy, do you have the correct set of bushings for your pen kits? Not all 9mm will use the same bushings. The kit instructions should give you the drill and bushing numbers.

 

[Dutchman]

Opps, I meant 7mm. Here is what I am using.

http://http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee84/packfmm/?action=view&current=penbit.jpg

 

[woodArtz]

The 7mm bit should leave a slip fit that can easily be filled with Med. or Thick CA. Some use Epoxy, I haven't since I don't have the patience. As for the CA finish... it's not to bad once you have the hang of it. Here's a vid that will give you a intro. Russ Fairfield is a well known turner, so google him for more tips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VkKcFRSWQ

 

[DaveO]

I have been helping my son get started turning some pens. We bought a mandrel and some pen kits. After we bored the blanks, the brass sleeves don't seem to set up tight in the blanks. We are using a 9mm bit that was reccomended and CA instant glue. We scuffed the brass sleeves a little for better adhesion, but they are not setting up tight.
Check your bit with good calipers to the diameter of the tube. If they match within a 100th then your bit is good. The only other problem you could be having is run-out on your DP
How long should I leave the to dry, it says instant.
I have always let mine dry (with a spritz of accelerator) for just a few minutes, and have never had a failure
Should I try something else like a two part expoxy?
Epoxy can work well if you need to fill gaps. I use thick or thin CA and have never had a failure
The pen blanks tend to spin some on the mandrel, any tips to eliminate this or is strictly related to loose brass sleeves.

If your blanks are spinning on the mandrel you need to tighten up the nut some, but not too much as that can distort the mandrel. Snug it tight and give it a ¼ turn more.

Also, I have seen folks mention a CA finish on some of thier pens. How exactly do you apply this to the pen.

My CA finishing process is highly complicated. I apply the CA (medium is my flavor) with a finger off a nitril glove. I apply several thin coats, trying to spread it as evenily as possible. Then I sand, if i have done things right I can start with MM, if not it's to the 220 grit. I like to initally sand the CA to a dull sheen, that will let you know that you've got it all flat. Then procceed to work through the MM grit until you have a high gloss finish. It should only take you about 10-15 minutes.
If you need more info on it let me know. I was taught CA finishing by a member or two from this site and have vowed to pass it on ever since
THanks for the help.
Buddy

Dave

 

[WoodWrangler]

Drill the holes carefully (preferably with a drill press and secured tightly so they don't shake and make the hole a bit larger than desired), use a THICK CA glue, continue to scuff the brass (80 grit sandpaper works great). Then, put the glue on the brass tube, squirt some accelerate inside the blank, then slide the brass into the blank. I've only had a few (meaning very few) slip following this sequence of steps.

 

[WoodWrangler]

As for the CA finishing ... here's a copy/paste of an old post I made a while back ... http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f32/ca-finishing-16549/?highlight=finish. TRUST ME ... if you do this method, it will work! A buddy of mine didn't heed the advice and just last week finally thru int he towel after messing up about 10 pens. He came over and said "Okay, what's the deal". After ONE demo, he did 5 perfect CA finishes in their glossy glory! (Tom if you read this, speak up!)



I had a heck of a time with this ... but after watching ONE demo with North Carolina Woodworker-member Chris Mathes at a Charlotte Woodworkers meeting I saw the light ... and have since gotten 100% of my CA-finished pens to turn out beautifully.

Personally, I was overthinking the process and far to concerned about the glue drying "instantly". In the end, two coats is usually enough and finished up through 12000 MicroMesh and a little automotive plastic polish turns up a beautiful, glossy finish.

Here's the tips I can provide from Chris' instruction:

- Use Medium thickness CA glue
- (OPTIONAL) Make your own bushings for use when applying the CA finish. The bushings are made of phoelinic (??) plastic (available at WC). This keeps the blanks from sticking too to the bushings, as the glue doesn't adhere well to the plastic)
- Tear the finger tip off a rubber glove (or use one of the plastic baggies that came in the pen kit to protect the metal pieces) and place it on your finger tip to apply the finish.
- A little goes a far way. Don't put too much CA on each coat!
- Get your finger under the blank, squirt on some CA and move your finger quickly back and forth length-wise to thin and smooth out the glue. Do this for about 10 seconds on each side, give or take, then get your hand off that blank.
- No need to sand yet, apply a second coat the same way.
- A quick squirt of accelerator wouldn't hurt between coats.
- Now start at the lowest MicroMesh pad and work all the way up. Use the first pad to smooth (maybe 10 seconds on each side), then polish with rest (maybe 5 seconds on each side). Use the sandpaper with water!
- (OPTIONAL) A dab of automotive Plastic Polish (don't buy the stuff at the woodworking store, just go to Pep Boys or Advance Auto Parts and pick up some for a quarter the price). Dab that on and polish the final mile.
- If you fear the blanks are stuck to the bushings, tap it lightly with the skew nose-first or parting tool to break the bond.
- Take the glossy blanks off the mandrel. Rub the ends gently on some 150 grit sandpaper to remove any CA buildup on the ends.

One note I forgot to mention above, use the sandpaper WET! Once you have the CA coats on, treat it like plastic. NO MORE DRY SANDING. Keep a bowl of clean water close and keep that sandpaper WET!

Now .... you have a perfectly finish with superglue!


Before I learned this method, I tried everything ... BLO/CA, thin CA, ...anything. This is the only method I've had success with. Good luck!

 

[JRD]

I always use 2 part epoxy. It gives a more extended "working" time, as well as fills any voids if the fit between the brass tube and hole in the blank are not an extremely tight fit.

It also has the benefit of allowing you to use a sliver of wood to really coat the inside of the blank with a good layer of glue to assure maximum adhesion.

Jim

 

[taandctran]

I use gorilla glue. It expands in the tubes. Am I the only one that uses this???

 

[ScottM]

I use gorilla glue. It expands in the tubes. Am I the only one that uses this???

Hmmm....Never thought to give it a try. I am sure it works well. GG does hold most everything. The only downside I see is the drying time.

 

[WoodWrangler]

I use gorilla glue. It expands in the tubes. Am I the only one that uses this???

Seems to me that you'd be waiting a LONG time for it to dry. The THICK CA glue works just fine. It is gap filling and will hold the tube securely. Put a spray of the accelorator into the blank before inserting the glued-up tube and you'll be turning in a matter of minutes.

As for the epoxy .. super strength and works great too (yeah, I tried it), but even 5 minute epoxy takes about 15 minutes to really do it's just (at least that has been my experience). It was also very expensive to do. I didn't see any value difference in doing that versus the thicker CA.:icon_scra

 

[MikeL]

DaveO taught me how to turn pens in his woodturning dojo probably 2 years ago. Sidenote: Sensei DaveO does NOT believe in sweeping; the legs or the floor! (Karate Kid reference )

I have used his described method for almost all of my pens. I did try to use Gorilla Glue after watching Bill Baumbeck's DVD (from Arizona Silhouette) on pen turning. He recommends that the blanks sit overnight before turning. After trying both, my preference is CA. As mentioned above, I too use medium to glue the tubes in and only pick up the thin or thick CA to fill an occasional void.

I do recommend Bill's DVD as he goes through the entire pen turning process for different kits in real-time while revealing some great tips along the way. There are no high production values, but the man takes his time and explains things clearly. It's not nearly as good as a friendly one-on-one lesson from a NCWW member, but it is a good resource IMHO.

 

[CaptnA]

For pen tubes I like epoxy. The amount I mix at a time works out for 4 double blank pens or 6 singles like the atlas. I have a steady supply of plastic lids I mix it in that are the perfect size for me. I've not had but one issue with epoxy and that was from mixing too much at once. so it was setting up before I got it all used. easy fix on that one. I wait 10-15 minutes on 5 minute epoxy MOST of the time. My shop isn't heated or humidity controlled. I make sure everything is ready before I mix the epoxy so all I have to do is swab it on and insert the tubes. I now plug my tubes and haven't had an issue with glue in them since. On some kits it won't matter and on some kits, any glue in the tubes makes them useless. CA works, but I'm fumble fingered at times and I've had thin set up before I got the tubes inserted all the way and thick ca has let tubes slip out some. Never tried gorilla glue on pens but I know people that do and like it. It stains skin so I don't use it often.
DaveO said to check your drill size with calipers. Good point. I didn't use calipers when I started making pens. I can tell a huge difference now that I do. I caliper check everything. I may spend 2 minutes longer checking with calipers per pen, but my fit has gotten so much better its 2 minutes well spent. I check my bushings fairly often as well. A little sanding may not sound like much but a little on each pen and your bushings are toast.
I've made some delrin points to hold my blanks while I sand now and apply finish. No more bushing dust disoloring my blanks-Hray. Bushings to me are a guide. I used to try to use them as a reference. Now I use my calipers. BTW my calipers cost less than $15 at HF. Some of the best money I've spent on pens. If you buy a lot of kits even the same type, are you sure the parts are all the same size? You might be surprised, and I only know one way to find out.
Extra tubes are pretty cheap. I bought several and started practicing on any scrap wood I could find. I came up with a ca finish I like and can do over and over. I don't use accelerator and some do. I found that the more I sand a ca finish I wasn't having any left on the wood. All the white dust is your finish, and ca finish is very thin to start with. After a while I found I can apply ca and hardly need to do much with it. Read, watch, learn, and experiment, you'll find the way that works for you.
Spinning blanks - argh. Don't overtighten as that will cause your mandrel to distort which causes your blanks to be out of round. That is so frustrating. I turn on a mandrel but more and more I'm leaning towards between centers which means no mandrel, no bushings, and potentially less problems. I wish I'd learned to make pens without a mandrel so I wouldn't be hesitant to stop using one now!

 

[Dutchman]

Thanks everybody for these helpful tips and hints. We should be able to fix our problems. I'll try to post a picture of one of his pens.

 

[taandctran]

I've used gorilla glue for 5 or 6 years and proably over 100 pens. I tryed CA when I first started making pens but didnt like the results. I ended up loosing a few blanks and tubes. Some dryed before the tube was in correctly and some tubes came lose while turning. I always glue a few blanks at a time, that way they are ready when I need them. The only down side to Gorilla glue is the foam in the tubes, but it comes out easily with a punch.

 

[Gotcha6]

I use mdeium CA to glue in sleeves. I may try Gorilla Glue, though, as I also glue up several blanks and move on to previous glue ups to turn. The only problem I could see with GG is when using some softer materials the glue expansion may burst the blank. As for glue out the ends, that usually comes out when I use the end mill on the blank. The guide mandrel acts as a reamer in the sleeve.
Pen turning is a very good way to get a young person in the shop, in my opinion. The tools are no more dangerous than some kitchen knives, and as I've said before, I like to be holding the sharp thingy and letting the dull thingy do the spinning.

 

[taandctran]

I use mdeium CA to glue in sleeves. I may try Gorilla Glue, though, as I also glue up several blanks and move on to previous glue ups to turn. The only problem I could see with GG is when using some softer materials the glue expansion may burst the blank. As for glue out the ends, that usually comes out when I use the end mill on the blank. The guide mandrel acts as a reamer in the sleeve.
Pen turning is a very good way to get a young person in the shop, in my opinion. The tools are no more dangerous than some kitchen knives, and as I've said before, I like to be holding the sharp thingy and letting the dull thingy do the spinning.

I have never had a problem with the glue messing up the blanks. I could see how it may be a problem with soemthing really soft. but for the most part I think the pressure would go to the ends.