Old vs New Scroll Saw

[TDeal]

I have an old Delta 40-440 24 inch scroll saw that I love but can't get the results I need from it. I understand part of the problem is that the spring return mechanism results in varying blade tension as it travels up and down. New saws maintain constant blade tension. Thinking that maximum tension would give better results, but can't get accuracy that appears to be available from the newer machines like Dewalt DW788. Minimizing tension now seems to work better, as there would be less tension differential between the maximum upper and lower positions. Has anybody had success getting better accuracy using these old scroll saws? I see in the instruction book a lower guide is shown on one of the pictures but it isn't shown on any exploded parts lists I've been able to find. I wonder if that would help.

Is it possible that these old saws just aren't capable of the accuracy of the newer models such as Dewalt DW788?

 

[ScottM]

I can't help with a Delta but check out this site. Rick is most knowledgeable on all the major saws. FWIW I would not buy a new Dewalt 788. The quality has gone in the toilette. If I was to buy a new saw today it would be the 21" Excalibur. And this is coming from an experienced scroller who owns two Dewalts.

http://scrollsaws.com/

 

[golfdad]

Thanks for the update Scott... I was looking for one....guessing used is still good quality

 

[Hmerkle]

I can't help with a Delta but check out this site. Rick is most knowledgeable on all the major saws. FWIW I would not buy a new Dewalt 788. The quality has gone in the toilette. If I was to buy a new saw today it would be the 21" Excalibur. And this is coming from an experienced scroller who owns two Dewalts.

http://scrollsaws.com/

Scott - what has changed on the new Dewalt since you say "the quality has gone in the toilette?"

Is the design the same and quality has gone down or did they change the design and make it cheaper?

 

[sawman101]

I had a Dewalt DW788 Type 1. Those were made in Canada. I loved! That saw. Wore it plum to death. Dewalt showed on their website they would completely rebuild the saw, and replace any part that was worn, and give a 1 year guarantee. Bought my saw used from my brother, who had bought it as a reconditioned saw. So I hauled it to the Charlotte Service Center. Went to pick it up 10 days later, and they brought my saw out. Looked like a brand new saw! Then they explained they had taken the table off my broken saw, and put it on a new saw....but the label on the motor was the very same label off my regional saw, which showed it to be a Type 1. Cost me $209.00. Needless to say, I was quite happy. However, I could not get the cutting accuracy from the new saw. Had to raise the table at the rear to come closer to trying the blade from to back. Had great difficulty trying the blade in the holders so it ran true top to bottom, because the top and bottom arms don't line up. Then, I had to elongate 4 screw holes at the front of the bottom arm to lengthen the arm to bringing it ccloser in length to the top arm. I am no longer a die devoted DW788 fan. Am planning on a new machine, and decided to buy a NEW Bushton Mfg. Hawk BM 26, the current saw replacing the RBI Hawk G4 saw. RADICAL!!!:rolf::rolf:

 

[Hmerkle]

WELL, WELL, WELL
Hello to my friend Dr. Bruce!
How are you doing sir?

 

[sawman101]

Recovering from double by pass in November, which means I couldn't do the physical therapy for spinal stenosis which means I'm all stove up like a squashed stink bug, but I'm getting better. Working on a 3 drawer roll around cabinet that holds the new 18" Flatmaster sander I sacrificed my wife's Christmas present to get. Built the drawers today, using 1/2" box joints........because:wwink:the cabinet isn't quite square, and I need to rack hem slightly to even the fronts, but hey, who will ever know, except you and me and every NC Woodworker! Besides, my motto is, any cabinet maker worth his weight popsicle sticks, can cover up his mistakes.:gar-Bi

 

[sawman101]

And I hope you're doing well Hank!

 

[Hmerkle]

Recovering from double by pass in November, which means I couldn't do the physical therapy for spinal stenosis which means I'm all stove up like a squashed stink bug, but I'm getting better. Working on a 3 drawer roll around cabinet that holds the new 18" Flatmaster sander I sacrificed my wife's Christmas present to get. Built the drawers today, using 1/2" box joints........because:wwink:the cabinet isn't quite square, and I need to rack hem slightly to even the fronts, but hey, who will ever know, except you and me and every NC Woodworker! Besides, my motto is, any cabinet maker worth his weight popsicle sticks, can cover up his mistakes.:gar-Bi

Good on you!
Everyone here was thinking about you - glad you are getting back to normal, well back anyway! Ha HA!

As far as covering up your mistakes - well I am betting against you since you have to have experience and when you make few mistakes - you don't get that "OH $^it" what am I going to do with this mess "opportunity!":wink_smil

 

[ScottM]

Scott - what has changed on the new Dewalt since you say "the quality has gone in the toilette?"

Is the design the same and quality has gone down or did they change the design and make it cheaper?

The base design is unchanged. It is the quality of the parts and their tolerances that have lead to the down fall. Many units have part failures early in their life (motors and bearings). Many units are not square (blade to table) and can only be made square with user modifications. I belong to several scrollsaw web sites and Dewalt is getting bombed on all of them. I can see the difference in quality in our Outreach units. They are no where near as good as my older machines.

Don't get me wrong. I like my Dewalts but if they died tomorrow they would not be replaced with another Dewalt.

 

[Hmerkle]

The base design is unchanged. It is the quality of the parts and their tolerances that have lead to the down fall. Many units have part failures early in their life (motors and bearings). Many units are not square (blade to table) and can only be made square with user modifications. I belong to several scrollsaw web sites and Dewalt is getting bombed on all of them. I can see the difference in quality in our Outreach units. They are no where near as good as my older machines.

Don't get me wrong. I like my Dewalts but if they died tomorrow they would not be replaced with another Dewalt.

So what is the alternative?
The next step is considerable more money right? (Excalibur, Hawk, Hegner etc.) Or are there other "Mid-level" choices?

 

[ScottM]

So what is the alternative?
The next step is considerable more money right? (Excalibur, Hawk, Hegner etc.) Or are there other "Mid-level" choices?

Mid-range to me is $400 to $600. When you talk of a new Hegner, Hawk, or Eclipse you at looking at more then a grand or better (2x - 5x more what a Dewalt would cost). The Excalibur is maybe 75% more than a Dewalt. You can get the 21" Excalibur package (saw, light, stand, foot switch) for $900 or the 16" Excalibur package for around $700. Delta also has entries in the mid range market one of which is a clone of the Dewalt right down to the same issues. So sadly I feel that there are really there are no good saws in the mid-range market.

 

[BeachBoy]

I will echo the comments on the Dewalt problems. But I started out with a very old Dremel scroll saw that had even worse problems. So when I first bought my Dewalt, I thought it was great. Then I bought a Hegner. Only then did I realize the extent of the Dewalt problem. I modified it to make the blade more square with the table, and that helped, but it will never match the Hegner. I don't have any experience with other mid-level saws other than Dewalt, so I can't say how the direct competition compares. I only know that there is a noticeable and meaningful difference in performance when you step up to the high end. That said, my Dewalt performs OK for most tasks. So I'm not sure if the Hegner cost (more than three times that of a Dewalt) is money well spent. It depends, I guess, on how scrolling-intensive your work tends to be.

 

[Toolemera]

Speaking of Old V New... does anyone use an old peddle powered scroll saw? or a treadle scroll saw?

 

[ScottM]

Speaking of Old V New... does anyone use an old peddle powered scroll saw? or a treadle scroll saw?

I do not and I am not aware of any of our regular scrollers who do.

 

[Pop Golden]

The Delta 40-440 is NOT a scrollsaw. This machine is a jigsaw as is my Powermatic. The machine Bosch calls a jigsaw is a sabra saw.
A new name has been added to this name mess "rigid arm scroll saw" that is our old jigsaws. A sabrasaw is attached only at one end and can be plunged like a sabra. A jigsaw cuts only on the down stroke and is returned up by a spring. It is nowhere near as accurate as a real scrollsaw. And, we all know that a scrollsaw cuts in both up & down directions under a lot more blade tension.

I have a DeWalt that is a few years old and it is a very good machine. Thanks for the info on present quality. I've been recommending the DeWalt to folks and was not aware of the problems. I know of no replacement saw in this price range. Maybe a used higher quality saw? The Delta clone isn't a clone it's the same saw different color. Remember for a short time Delta and DeWalt were the same company.

Pop

 

[Toolemera]

Interesting and thanks! I tend to talk to the vintage tools crowd, where they are used for demonstrations and for fun.

 

[cskipper]

I started with a cheap Craftsman followed by a cheap Dremel (before they made some improvements in their saw. Once I sold a bunch of pieces to a gallery I bought my first used Hegner. I found it on Craigslist as well as my second used newer one. I got a steal on the second and sold my other to a member of this group. I have spent many hours on it and it has been great. The difference in the price ranges is the motion of the blade. If I had to buy one today I would want to at least look at an Excaliber. I wouldn't be able to buy a new Hegner or anything in that class of saws.