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J
jeff...
B4 just my understanding, so take it for what it's worth.
Solid wood floor is made out of kiln dried lumber. Good installers like to bring the flooring into the home where it will be installed a few weeks to a month before it's put down, so it will have time to acclimate to the environment of the house.
If the flooring is too dry in comparison to the house environment, it will swell and possibly buckle, I think this is why they leave such a wide gap along the walls. If the flooring is to wet then it will draw up and you'll have cracks showing in the T&G joints.
Acclimation is a good practice for any solid wood your going to use to build something out of for indoor use, especially furniture no matter how the wood has been dried.
Also wanted to add, QS lumber will draw up more along the thickness of the board and flat sawn will draw up more along the width of the board. Even though QS will make a more durable, attractive and stable floor, you'll pay big bucks for it. In compassion to flat sawn, QS takes longer to mill, produces more waste, takes longer to dry and is more difficult to machine. therefore not many people will mess with QS'ing. But all things considered QS is a better end product than flat sawn in almost every way.
Thanks
Solid wood floor is made out of kiln dried lumber. Good installers like to bring the flooring into the home where it will be installed a few weeks to a month before it's put down, so it will have time to acclimate to the environment of the house.
If the flooring is too dry in comparison to the house environment, it will swell and possibly buckle, I think this is why they leave such a wide gap along the walls. If the flooring is to wet then it will draw up and you'll have cracks showing in the T&G joints.
Acclimation is a good practice for any solid wood your going to use to build something out of for indoor use, especially furniture no matter how the wood has been dried.
Also wanted to add, QS lumber will draw up more along the thickness of the board and flat sawn will draw up more along the width of the board. Even though QS will make a more durable, attractive and stable floor, you'll pay big bucks for it. In compassion to flat sawn, QS takes longer to mill, produces more waste, takes longer to dry and is more difficult to machine. therefore not many people will mess with QS'ing. But all things considered QS is a better end product than flat sawn in almost every way.
Thanks
barry, as a former installer, I have a few questions for you:
how will you be finishing the floor??? what products?
what substrate will the floor be installed over? OSB, 3/4 ply? please say you are not putting this over a slab foundation.
How will you be installing the floor? I like staples myself, with some sneaky top nailing near the edges where the stapler won't go, but trim or brad nailer will fit, and some nails in the groove or tongue, depending on fit.
3-4 days is usually what we looked for, for acclimating the material to the house, tho' by accident of bad scheduling, sometimes it would be much more, sometimes less. I never had a call-back for hardwood floors for movement issues.
be aware that the material will try to twist, some of this can be taken care of with the BFH must flooring staplers are actuated with, but sometimes it must be addressed by a second set of hands and more tools, we would often use the Bessey - Pergo straps for situations like that, if we were trying to save a box, and there were several boards that had tension in them.
I am sure I had more questions than that a few minutes ago, but memory fails....
how will you be finishing the floor??? what products?
what substrate will the floor be installed over? OSB, 3/4 ply? please say you are not putting this over a slab foundation.
How will you be installing the floor? I like staples myself, with some sneaky top nailing near the edges where the stapler won't go, but trim or brad nailer will fit, and some nails in the groove or tongue, depending on fit.
3-4 days is usually what we looked for, for acclimating the material to the house, tho' by accident of bad scheduling, sometimes it would be much more, sometimes less. I never had a call-back for hardwood floors for movement issues.
be aware that the material will try to twist, some of this can be taken care of with the BFH must flooring staplers are actuated with, but sometimes it must be addressed by a second set of hands and more tools, we would often use the Bessey - Pergo straps for situations like that, if we were trying to save a box, and there were several boards that had tension in them.
I am sure I had more questions than that a few minutes ago, but memory fails....
J
jeff...
You may want to talk with Kyle, if he don't chime in here. I know he has a kiln and think he has moulding machine set up to make T&G flooring (though I could be wrong). Odds are you'll get a better product and price from him than from a BORG.
Thanks
pete
will be using many coats of Polly
i will be on a ply wood sub floor (do i need to put down any rosen paper on the sub floor first)?
t- nail Thru the tongue
bought that shaper and i think i can make the material myself and save a ton of cash on materials i got plenty of time thats what i told the wife anyhow :-D
my main question is what raw stock do i need to start with
dont use a water base poly. if you have the ability to apply an aluminum oxide finish do so..
the question I would ask is what does the LOML wants not what you want otherwise look forward to many years remarks that may not be positive
Im going with a #1 common cherry for my floors and started running it last night. Finished width will be 6" face which means I start with a 7" board.
one more thing..it usually takes about a week or more to acclimate 10-12% wood to 6-7% air conditioned environment.
the question I would ask is what does the LOML wants not what you want otherwise look forward to many years remarks that may not be positive
Im going with a #1 common cherry for my floors and started running it last night. Finished width will be 6" face which means I start with a 7" board.
one more thing..it usually takes about a week or more to acclimate 10-12% wood to 6-7% air conditioned environment.
J
jeff...
Too bad hickory could not be used, man what a floor that would make (tough as nails) or can it be used?
MC (moisture content) and RH (relative humidity) are very different things. They do have an effect on each other, but other than that they are different. The RH of a climate controled home is 50-60% but the MC of wood in that home could be in the 6-10% range. Other than I have no advice for HW flooring, other than it is better to buy it than make it if you value your time.
Dave
Dave
Bman, a couple of comments;
I'll be glad to kiln dry the flooring for you, if you'd like. The price will depend upon the quantity, but for a 1K bd foot load I can probably get it down to .35 bd foot or so - which is pretty close to my cost.
If you can find someone with a solar kiln, they should be able to shoot you a much better price since they will not have the utility costs to factor in.
I would shoot for a final MC of around 7% - 8%, using a pin-type meter to measure the inside of the board.
I would recommend that you manufacture at least 15 - 20% more floor than you think that you'll need, to allow for losses, etc.
Re rosen paper - most top flooring installers recommend it. I used it under the 100 year old heart-pine flooring in my own home, and the squeaks are definitely minimized. Another option is to glue the bottomside of the seams (below the tongue) when you nail down the floor; if you do this it will remain extremely tight and rosen paper is not needed.
RE inside acclimation, longer is better. The upstairs of my house acclimated for 10 days before installation, and the downstairs for almost a month. Inside acclimation is especially important if you are using wide plank flooring!
You can use some of the excess flooring that you manufactured to make quarter-round trim to go between the flooring and the baseboard. Having the quarter round from the same material as the floor makes a pleasing transition.
To minimize degradation, in a perfect world the tree would be felled on day one, milled on day two, and go into the kiln on day 3. Any increases over this will result in more degradation.
Many folks will air-dry hardwoods until they are below 25% MC, and then kiln dry them the final amount. This will reduce your kiln costs, but increase degradation.
What species of wood are you planning to use?
Scott
I'll be glad to kiln dry the flooring for you, if you'd like. The price will depend upon the quantity, but for a 1K bd foot load I can probably get it down to .35 bd foot or so - which is pretty close to my cost.
If you can find someone with a solar kiln, they should be able to shoot you a much better price since they will not have the utility costs to factor in.
I would shoot for a final MC of around 7% - 8%, using a pin-type meter to measure the inside of the board.
I would recommend that you manufacture at least 15 - 20% more floor than you think that you'll need, to allow for losses, etc.
Re rosen paper - most top flooring installers recommend it. I used it under the 100 year old heart-pine flooring in my own home, and the squeaks are definitely minimized. Another option is to glue the bottomside of the seams (below the tongue) when you nail down the floor; if you do this it will remain extremely tight and rosen paper is not needed.
RE inside acclimation, longer is better. The upstairs of my house acclimated for 10 days before installation, and the downstairs for almost a month. Inside acclimation is especially important if you are using wide plank flooring!
You can use some of the excess flooring that you manufactured to make quarter-round trim to go between the flooring and the baseboard. Having the quarter round from the same material as the floor makes a pleasing transition.
To minimize degradation, in a perfect world the tree would be felled on day one, milled on day two, and go into the kiln on day 3. Any increases over this will result in more degradation.
Many folks will air-dry hardwoods until they are below 25% MC, and then kiln dry them the final amount. This will reduce your kiln costs, but increase degradation.
What species of wood are you planning to use?
Scott
Barry,
Here's a link to an Equilibrium Moisture Calculator or you can simply look it up in the chart below the calculator. 20 - 30 percent RH sounds low to me.
Wood Equilibrium Moisture Content Table And Calculator
Chuck
back to second Scott's recommendation on the rosin paper, never did a hardwood floor without it. also, never did get to do one with material wider than the crap they were selling in the Borg's 8-9 years ago ---- 2.5 inches, IIRC, so we weren't concerned about longer times for acclimation
J
jeff...
Barry we literally thousands of BF in hickory logs, how much you need and at what length?
J
jeff...
Scott I would like to talk with you, I had no idea your kiln was unoccupied and available, what's it's capacity?
maybe a 1500 -2000 bf would do the job the wife does not conceptualize very well :BangHead: :BangHead: i would have to put a sample together for her to look at before we would be able to pull the trigger on that quantity.....i did get some from you in one of the lumber runs but that is still drying not sure ......came across some free logs big oaks about 3ft dia 4 logs 8-10 ft long .....hope to bring them to you and Ted soon :icon_thum :icon_thum
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