Looking to purchase my first hand plane

[kooshball]

I spent some time playing with hand planes when I was at IWF this summer and I can see their value for finishing my next project (dresser). I would like to get an all purpose plane that I can use for finishing. I will mill all my lumber with power tools but I would LOVE to keep the ROS on the shelf for this next project.

So at the high end are the Lie Nelson, then Veritas, Stanley, etc. I don't really want to drop $350 on this tool so Lie Nelson is out but with the remaining options which route would fit my needs the best. Since this is my first plane I prefer to go with a new one (or at least one that won't need a tune-up).

Thanks!

 

[eyekode]

I would suggest you make a Krenov plane. 35$ and a couple hours is all it takes . You can even borrow my copy of David Finck's book on the subject. Note though it does take a block plane to make one...

That reminds me, a block plane is probably your best bet for "first plane". My vote would be a LN or a LV.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

If you want to get a smooth finish after surfacing w/ power tools, and avoid the ROS, have you considered a good card scraper? Whole lot cheaper than a new plane, and just as effective for what you're describing.

Bill

 

[McRabbet]

David,

You mentioned

I would like to get an all purpose plane that I can use for finishing. I will mill all my lumber with power tools but I would LOVE to keep the ROS on the shelf for this next project.

Two suggestions come to mind -- 1st, if you are machine planing and jointing lumber for glue-ups for components like the dresser top, sides and drawer face, then a Cabinet Scraper is the best tool for removing milling marks left by a planer and glue squeezed out at joints. You can eliminate 95% plus of any sanding before you apply finish. (The old master furniture makers used scrapers long before sandpaper was invented.) I'd suggest you get a set of good quality Cabinet Scrapers like these shown as Item A from Lee Valley Tools and both Items B & C (a good mill file and a jig to hold it). You can use a good round shaft screwdriver for a burnishing tool.

2nd -- I find a good block plane to be a very versatile tool for much of the finish work involved in the work you are describing. They are perfect for chamfering the sharp edges on drawers or cabinet edges. I'd recommend you look for a good used Stanley 9-1/2 or 60-1/2 Block Plane (See Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore website for details on all Stanley metallic planes-- these perform the same function but have different adjustment mechanisms). If you want to buy a new, modern version, I'd suggest the Lee Valley Veritas DX60 Block Plane (We have one in the Fall Raffle and it could be yours if you buy the winning ticket!) If you intend using the plane for end grain, then a Low-Angle Block plane like Item E in this link would be a good choice.

 

[fsdogwood]

You might want to grab the Veritas plans available on the Raleigh Craigslist, i.e., the low
angle block, the #4, and the medium shoulder. The price was good, for a quality plane

Regards.

Pinwu

 

[froglips]

Ah, I remember my first plane.........

and my second plane.....

and.....

Sorry, was having a flash back.

Firstly, buy some raffle tickets! You could win a plane and solve all your problems! (Shameless plug!)

As you plan to use power tools for the milling (I'm going to assume jointer and planer), you are past the "remove material and flatten" steps commonly associated with the Scurb/Jack and Jointer planes.

So, you are now in the realm of the smoothing plane followed by cabinet scraper.

You can equate a smoothing plane with a wide belt or drum sander.

You can't go wrong putting good money in a new smoothing plane. Lee Valley makes a wonderful tool.

Where you need to answer your own question is how much work do you wish to do to setup the tool. A Lee Valley/Lie Nielsen or other quality wooden bodied plane makers comes just about ready to use.

You won't have to spend countless joy filled hours fussing and fitting and refussing. Not to mention you get a mostly flattened iron ready for final sharpening.

Were it me (and by jove it is!), I'd advise you to take a whole different approach. One that is also far cheaper (initially).

Look for a jack plane. A used Stanley #5 (or other makers in the same general size).

Why? The jack plane is the easiest to setup and requires the least finesse to use. Its the hand equiv of the jointer and to some degree the planer. It hogs out the wood and makes it flatter (not flattest, thats the jointer planes job).

Plus, you can find them all over the place for no more than $30.

You gain almost nothing in buying a high end jack plane (when used for their original purpose). Sole flatness is not helpful. A tight mouth is actually a bad thing. The iron can be shaped with a 6 to 8 inch radius.

You also don't get into the "sharpen the iron till it splits atoms" that are more important in smoothing planes.

Being your first plane, I think you may find the finesse of the smoother to be a hindrance to learning how planes work.

I'd then use the plane to work on boards that you might find difficult to power mill. Be they too small or too large. When I started, I would just grab a board and play with it. Or make a few passes then return the board to the power milling machines.

Block planes are nice, but they introduce a different set of skills and are applied to different situations. They are small, and you'll likely find uses for them.

But, you may find you learn many of the same lessons from setting up and using a jack plane.

It also helps you get a better sense of what kind of hand plane work you want to do.

At least, that's my take on your "first plane".

Just don't ask about your "last plane"!

Jim

 

[Guy in Paradise]

Just as important as the plane is the...

sharpening system. I found that once I had a good and reliable sharpener, most of the problems I had with planes went away. Of course, the three Lie Nielsen planes do nice work, when sharpened properly.

Good luck

 

[Mike Davis]

Any plane is going to need sharpening and tuning, if not right out of the box then soon after.

Don't try to avoid learning the most important part of using a hand tool. Keep it sharp and tuned up and it will serve you well for the rest of your life.

Neglect it for a moment and it will live in the dark recesses of your shop seldom or never used again.

There is an abundance of fine fellows here who would gladly show you how to keep your plane in top working order. Or you could pay to take a class with one of the fine schools or professional instructors.


I set up a Stanley #6 out in the middle of a field at a farm festival in about an hour today. With power tools it may have taken less time.

This is a plane I bought at a flea market for $40. It shaved a hair thin ribbon the full length of my board very easily.

I would never pay hundreds of hard earned dollars for a hand plane just to avoid learning to sharpen.

 

[kooshball]

First of all, thanks for all the quick replies.

Let me address some of the questions / comments that have been made thus far to further clarify my needs (wants):
-Yes, I have already entered the fall drawing (several times)
-Yes, the milling I mentioned was the typical jointer and planer
-I do have a scraper but just a card type (probably need to upgrade)

Now for some additional thoughts that I recently had:
-my jointer is only 6" wide but I deal with rough sawn lumber ranging from 6" - 10" wide so i use a planer sled (big, heavy, 2-man job) when necessary but I now wonder if it wouldn't be better to hand plane one side flat enough to get it into the planer without rocking, etc
-I will be making some drawers soon with half blind dovetails and will need a plane to trip up the outside corners (is this where the block plane comes in?)

So, do I ideally need three planes (one for "rough flatening", one for smoothing before sanding / scraping and one for cleaning up dovetails)?

Thanks

 

[merrill77]

I spent some time playing with hand planes when I was at IWF this summer and I can see their value for finishing my next project (dresser). I would like to get an all purpose plane that I can use for finishing. I will mill all my lumber with power tools but I would LOVE to keep the ROS on the shelf for this next project.

So at the high end are the Lie Nelson, then Veritas, Stanley, etc. I don't really want to drop $350 on this tool so Lie Nelson is out but with the remaining options which route would fit my needs the best. Since this is my first plane I prefer to go with a new one (or at least one that won't need a tune-up).

Thanks!

Given your intended use, I agree with the other recommendations to start with a set of card scrapers and associated sharpening accessories. I do very little sanding since I discovered scrapers. After that, you might consider a cabinet scraper such as a #80...or maybe even a #112. One of the reasons to stick with scrapers at the start is that scrapers are very forgiving of difficult grain. Planes are not - at least not for beginners (like me). The first time you hit difficult grain with a plane, you'll probably want to go back to sanding (I did). My next most-used planes are block planes (9 1/2 and 60 1/2) and rabbet planes (90, 94). Chris

 

[BSHuff]

For a 'First plane' I would go with a low angle block and a #3 or #4. The most important thing with a plane is learning how to use it. Find someone who can spend an evening or a few hours with you and just make shavings, adjust wrong, adjust right, sharpen some, etc. My favorite tool overall is my block plane. I am always reaching for it. I can take an ease an edge off, do a round over, adjust fit a bit, etc with the block plane. The #3 or 4 (or a low angle jack!) will allow you to smooth out most all of your machined stock. Once I started with a hand plane, I don't use my sander for too much now.

If I were buying new, I would look at the low angle/bevel up planes. They are a pretty new development (actually from the 60s?), and the LV and LN are great. One good thing about the new planes are that they keep their value well. I see the used ones for ~75% of new prices. HOWEVER, if you can find a $40 used bailey or similar, put $75 in it for a hock blade/chip breaker (or similar) and you will have 90% of a new plane for less than half the price of a new one.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Here's a thought, David. There are probably several members within 15-20 miles of you that have a wide assortment of hand planes and scrapers, and know how to use them. You might want to spend some time w/ one of them and try all the different options. This might keep you from buying the wrong tool and wasting money. I know from reading all the post on this thread we've probably done more to confuse you than help you. There's nothing like a little "hands on" experience.

If you can't find someone local, you're welcome to visit me, but I'm about an hour or more from Apex. I'm no expert w/ planes or scrapers, but I've got a wide variety you can play around w/.

Bill

 

[Bryan S]

First of all, thanks for all the quick replies.

-I will be making some drawers soon with half blind dovetails and will need a plane to trip up the outside corners (is this where the block plane comes in?)

Thanks

I am by no means knowledgeable enough to give a good answer to your questions, but for this one I would say yes. This is the reason I posted this thread a while back about block planes and got some good info from the members here.

I do second Bill's suggestion on finding someone close by. I am sure someone would be willing to help.

 

[michaelgarner]

Just my two cents....

First book to read
http://www.amazon.com/Handplane-Book-Garrett-Hack/dp/1561587125

Second book to read
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Sharpening-Leonard-Lee/dp/1561581259

My opinion on the best first plane! You can use it for jointing, smoothing, and use it on a shooting board (look up shooting board on google if you don't know what it is) I think its the best first plane. You can add a smoother to this and you would be good for starters. Like others have said you will need some good sharpening methods when the blade does get dull though. Have a blessed day.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182

 

[froglips]

Did we mention the Fall Drawing?

You can plane end grain (such as dovetails) with any plane. The sharpness of the iron is all that matters.

Standard block planes are bedded at 20 degrees. Add the common 25 degree bevel, guess what you have. 45 degrees

Low angle planes are bedded at 12 degrees. Plus 25, you guessed it, 37 degrees. That is not a tremendous difference.

Ron Hock, among others, have made the case that its the angle of approach that has a greater bearing on cutting end grain. As in skewing the iron. Some go even further showing that York pitch (50 degrees) can do a better job on end and wild grain.

Not saying std block or low angles aren't great tools, but I think they tend to be sold as something more than they are.

I am in the "length of the sole" and "curvature of the iron" are more important than the kind of plane or bevel angle.

Sounds like you have gone from "my first plane" to "my first three planes". Didn't take that long

-my jointer is only 6" wide but I deal with rough sawn lumber ranging from 6" - 10" wide so i use a planer sled (big, heavy, 2-man job) when necessary but I now wonder if it wouldn't be better to hand plane one side flat enough to get it into the planer without rocking, etc

You nailed this one. With a Jack plane, you can work the concave face of the board just enough to get it sitting flat (or passing the winding stick test). Then run it through the planer, hand planed face down. Then flip for a final thicknessing.

Nice thing with this approach, you don't have to completely flatten the face. Just take down the high edges enough to get it sitting flat.

Can also do it from the convex face, but its more work (take out the high middle, than work the outer edges).

Planes (and handtools in general) are not quite the same as power tools. You don't buy a hand tool for a specific job. You buy a handtool as part of an overall workflow. This is a new realization I've come to and its helping me see the process in a new light.

So, it would help to not see a smoothing plane replacing a ROS. I'd dare say they are apples and oranges.

Wow, I gotta stop drinking a full cup of coffee before I reply!!!

Jim

First of all, thanks for all the quick replies.

Let me address some of the questions / comments that have been made thus far to further clarify my needs (wants):
-Yes, I have already entered the fall drawing (several times)
-Yes, the milling I mentioned was the typical jointer and planer
-I do have a scraper but just a card type (probably need to upgrade)

Now for some additional thoughts that I recently had:
-my jointer is only 6" wide but I deal with rough sawn lumber ranging from 6" - 10" wide so i use a planer sled (big, heavy, 2-man job) when necessary but I now wonder if it wouldn't be better to hand plane one side flat enough to get it into the planer without rocking, etc
-I will be making some drawers soon with half blind dovetails and will need a plane to trip up the outside corners (is this where the block plane comes in?)

So, do I ideally need three planes (one for "rough flatening", one for smoothing before sanding / scraping and one for cleaning up dovetails)?

Thanks

 

[merrill77]

-my jointer is only 6" wide but I deal with rough sawn lumber ranging from 6" - 10" wide so i use a planer sled (big, heavy, 2-man job) when necessary but I now wonder if it wouldn't be better to hand plane one side flat enough to get it into the planer without rocking, etc

Here is a suggestion, since you already have a planer: In the time it takes you to plane a few boards flat on one side with a hand plane, you can build infeed/outfeed tables for your planer. I built a mobile base with infeed/outfeed tables. With a sled I can flatten the first face, even on 8' boards, by myself with little/no hassle. It works so well I sold my jointer. You would not need something as elaborate as mine, of course, to get the job done.

Chris

 

[Bas]

I am mainly a power tool guy, but I'm slowly building up my hand tool collection. Some things are just done better by hand.

I bought a brand new Veritas Jack plane. It wasn't cheap, but it should last forever and at least it taught me what a good plane should do. Tuning old planes is cheaper and probably better in the long run (since eventually the new Veritas plane will also require tuning), but when you're tone deaf, you have to start somewhere. I've used my Jack plane a number of time to quickly work down the high spot on a board before taking it to the jointer. Swish swish swish and done, much better than making 18 passes over the jointer. And it's also useful when dealing with short boards that don't too well in a power planer. Some elbow grease and then do the final dimensioning in the drum sander.

If you don't have a block plane yet, definitely make that your first purchase. A low angle is very useful for dealing with finicky grain. But even do I have a beautiful Lie-Nielsen block plane, the one I reach for most often is my "cheap" Stanley one.

To save on shipping, order the block plane and jack plane at the same time One of the most useful hand tools I have is a cabinet scraper, it's like a card scraper but with a beefy housing. It's perfect for leveling glue-ups. This tool is probably the best bang for the buck.

 

[kooshball]

Afternoon Update...

So, based on all these excellent replies (and the inability to pass up a good deal) I ended up getting a great craigslist deal on a very slightly used 4 1/2 Veritas smoothing plane and a Veritas low angle block plane :icon_cheers. I essentially got them both for less than the price of the smoothing plane NIB. I also got my dad to permanently lend me his old Craftsman 14" BL plane which I have been told on this forum is an equivalent of a Stanley #5 jack plane. My initial plan is to get the Craftsman plane up and running for the initial rough work on wide stock and practice on my pile of scrap poplar with the others.

So many of you responded to this thread making it difficult to thank you individually, but thank you to all for the information and for helping me to spend my money!

 

[kooshball]

Here is a suggestion, since you already have a planer: In the time it takes you to plane a few boards flat on one side with a hand plane, you can build infeed/outfeed tables for your planer. I built a mobile base with infeed/outfeed tables. With a sled I can flatten the first face, even on 8' boards, by myself with little/no hassle. It works so well I sold my jointer. You would not need something as elaborate as mine, of course, to get the job done.

Chris

I assume that you run the boards with the high spot in the middle...if this is the case, do you add shims to keep the pressure rollers from flattening the board under their pressure?

 

[Gofor]

From what you have stated so far, my recommendations:

Readying a board to go through a planer (i.e take out cup and twist), flattening one side, or jointing an edge square or for glue-up can all be done with a jack plane (#5 or #5 1/2). You may want an extra iron, so that one can be cambered and the other ground flat so you can switch it from flattening work to edge jointing.

Cleaning up dovetails, chamfering an edge and truing up a corner is best done with a block plane. I strongly recommend one with an adjustable mouth.

Add a card scraper and a good long straight edge, and you can do it all (albeit not as quickly or easily as with the longer and shorter planes in the arsenal, but you can do it).

As for quality, I learned by taking old planes and cheap quality newer ones and learning how to true them up, sharpen the irons, etc. Those are lessons you will need to learn, but except for sharpening the iron, they are not crucial to actually using the plane. If you start cheap, you may have to learn them to make the plane usable, before you really know what usable is.

Had I ever been given the experience of using a properly tuned quality plane first, I would have known what I was shooting for. As it was, I was guessing how good it should be and it took me a while to learn how good it could be.

Therefore, if you can afford it, I would suggest you start with a Lee-Valley or comparative quality plane. Which one (the Jack or the Block) depends on which you feel you will use most, but you really can use both if you have none. This will hook you into how nice it is. You will then buy more (used, etc) or start making your own, but will have an example to reference when tuning up the others. (Unless you are not financially-challenged like many of us, and will be able to continue with top-of-the-line purchases). If you decide hand planes are not for you, you will be able to recoup most of your investment during re-sale as long as they haven't been abused.

As for low-angle vs regular, etc, I have never had the pleasure of using a low-angle plane, so cannot comment. I do know that the next plane I make will be a York pitch (going the other direction), due to tear-out issues I have encountered in the woods I work with. Don't know if it will help, but intend to find out. The first low-angle plane I get will probably be a block plane.

JMTCW

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