Logs and Timber trends..

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Kyle

New User
Kyle Edwards
Guys and and Gals,

I wanted to bring up some interesting trends in the wood industry more particular to NC. I have been talking to loggers and concentration yards in the area and it seems that supplies of certain hardwoods are drying up pretty fast particularly walnut and cherry. It appears that china and other countries are basically paying premium prices for our logs.. shipping them over seas or offshore (huge sawmill ships in international waters) and sawing drying and dressing it and sending it right back us at much higher prices..


I ain't trying to scare you or sell you anything.. promise. Just giving you a heads up that higher prices at every retail outlet or wood supplier may be in the cards if this trend continues within 6-8 months.

Loads of walnut locally here don't even make to the large sawmills at premium log prices , it goes straight to nearest port and its gone until in finished form. This is info from some very large outfits with pro log buyers and their own sawyers.
 
J

jeff...

Kyle, what little I know, I'm in agreement with you. My uncle who has been in the lumber business for a long time recently told me basically the same thing. It stands to reason, when manufacturing is moved across the pond, a lot of things follow suit, demand for raw material is no exception. Just take a look at IRS auctions for example. How many brand name furniture manufacture auctions have you seen in the past year?

Thanks
 

erasmussen

RAS
Corporate Member
I have seen tugs pulling log trains across the sea.
I doubt they could pull one from here to china though
But I have seen tugs comming into port at kunsan korea for the plywood factorys there with log trains 2 miles long8-O
 

lhmayberry

Les Mayberry
Corporate Member
I have heard these stories in the past about the timbers in the nor'west being cut and milled at sea by Japan owned companies then sold back to the U.S.
Being the peons of our oun country how can we reverse this process and bring it back to the home front?

Les
 

tdhetrick

New User
Todd Hetrick
jeff, Kyle, and others

How do you guys think this will affect local lumber for us hobby guys. Will you guys who saw for us locally start having a hard time getting trees? Or will this mostly effect bigger operations?

Todd
 
J

jeff...

Since we buy mainly from logging companies, it's already affecting what I do.

Just this Saturday logger quote:

"Why should I sell to you for, when I can sell to the next guy for more"

That wasn't in a question form either, it was said as a satement. Franky, I really didn't know how to respond to it, would you?

I think it's simple suppy and demand. Supply is dwindling and demand is increasing, but factor in a overseas demand and things get even crazier.

But what kills me even more is to see a hardwood forest clear cut, spayed with chemicals to kill everything. And replanted in fast growing pine that will be harvested in 30 to 40 years. Don't get me wrong a land owner can do what every they want with their land, you didn't hear me say they couldn't. But I do have one question, where are the hardwoods gonna come from once the forests are gone?
 

rbdoby

New User
Rick
Jeff,

You've asked a a good question. There's a plant that makes OSB about 15 miles from here. All the timber in Surry county has been cut. They are now buying timber in West Virginia.

Mom had the family farm clear cut about 10 years ago and reforested with the help of the NC Forestry Service. They planted it back with white pine and Virginia pine, NO HARDWOOD. The forestry agent told me at that time there were only 5 stands of virgin timber left in the county.

I am thinking about planting the remaining grass fields on our land with the wild life packs of trees offered by the state nursery.
 

walnutjerry

Jerry
Senior User
Rick---------If I understand correctly. the hardwoods reseed themselves. Does anyone confirm that statement?

Jerry:)
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
Yes, hardwoods re-seed themselves, if there are seed trees left.
The basic forest ecology is you take a cleared piece of land. The Pines, Sweetgum, Tulip Poplars and other tree of little importance come in first. They will grow so tightly together that they shade the ground to the point that their seeds will no longer germinate (they are known as shade intolerant species). Then the climatic forest hardwoods Oak, Maple Hickory, Walnut ...all that is desired are allowed to sprout because they are tolerant of the shady conditions on the forest floor. Old age, hurricanes, ice storms, disease help to clear out the intolerant growth and make room for the tolerant and climatic species to grow and flourish.
So generally you don't get the hardwoods first unless you control the faster weedier vegetation and trees that as designated to come first.
Dave:)
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
But I do have one question, where are the hardwoods gonna come from once the forests are gone?

I think that logging for lumber has been given a bad rap as the cause of "deforestation" in our country. Land harvested for lumber isn't the problem, it's the land cleared for farming and urban expansion. Following is a interesting article discussing the deforestation issue in the US. Due to better agricultural practices and cultural awareness we actually have more forest cover than in the past. And if managed properly a forest is a very renewable resource.

Forests in the United States
The United States is 2.263 billion acres, of which 745 million acres, or 33 percent, is forested. 495 million acres, or 67 percent, of the total area of U.S. forests are commercial forests, used to produce timber for forest products.
Thirty-three percent of the total land area in the United States is forested. This compares to 46 percent forested at the time of European settlement. Between 1600 and 1920, 13 percent of the land area (29 percent of the forested area) was lost to clearing for agriculture and towns. Most of this clearing occurred between 1850 and 1910. By far the largest part was cleared for farming. Cities actually occupy a very small percentage of the total land area.
Today, the United States has about the same area of forestland as it did in 1920, even though there has been a 143 percent increase in population between then and today. There are two main reasons why the area of land in crops has remained stable since 1920. First, in 1910 about one-quarter of the land in crops was used to produce food for horses and other draft animals. The advent of the automobile and tractor made it possible to use that land to produce food for people instead. Second, advances in technology, chemistry, and genetics have made it possible to produce much more food on the same amount of land. In North America, forest areas remained the same in Canada and increased slightly in the United States.
Deforestation and Its Cause
Deforestation means the long-term loss of forest cover. Deforestation is the opposite of reforestation. Reforestation means that the forest is renewed after it is harvested. This renewal can either be by natural regeneration, by planting new trees, or by a combination of both.
It is important to know that forests are capable of recovering from total destruction without any help from people. Over the millions of years that forests have existed, they have grown back from destruction by fire, volcanoes, floods, landslides, and ice ages. In fact, it is so natural for forests to be destroyed occasionally that ecologists call it "disturbance" rather than "destruction." Forests have evolved so that they are capable of renewing themselves as part of their normal cycle of growth.
The disturbance caused by harvesting or logging a forest is not nearly as severe as that caused by a hot wildfire or a volcanic eruption. Forests can usually recover quickly from logging whereas more severe disturbance can result in slower recovery. But even the most severely disturbed forest will renew itself if it is left to do so.
Deforestation occurs when the forest is prevented from growing back by the actions of people and their domestic animals. This process is also known as "conversion" because it usually involves the conversion of the land from a forest to another use such as agriculture, towns and cities, or industry. Once the land has been converted, it must be maintained by people or it will grow back into a forest. For example, if agricultural land is abandoned and left alone, trees will eventually come back and the forest will renew itself. Even where the land has been completely paved over, such as a parking lot, it will gradually recover to a forest if the parking lot is abandoned.
Domestic grazing animals are one of the main causes of deforestation in many parts of the world. If too many sheep, goats, or cattle are put on the land, they can prevent trees from growing back. This has occurred in areas such as Scotland, northern Africa, and many parts of Asia.
So, simply cutting down the trees does not cause deforestation. What really matters is what happens after the trees are cut down. Is the land reforested and grown back into a forest, or is it deforested and converted to another use to grow food, house people, or build a factory or shopping mall?
We have to cut some of the forest down and convert the land to farms and cities to feed and house the six billion people who live on Earth. But wouldn't it be a good idea to try and reduce the amount of forest land that was deforested for these purposes.
I have a small 3 acre area behind my house that used to be an agricultural field in cultivation. About 15 years ago it was left to fallow. The regrowth of the forest is amazing. I cleared a small area for a fire-pit and seating around it, and I am constantly battling the forest from returning to that area. If that area and the surrounding undisturbed area (for the last 15 year) was left untouched I will have a climatic hardwood forest. Nature left unobstructed will take care of it's own.

It's hard to be a tree-hugger, and a lumber fan :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Dave:)
 

pcooper

Phillip Cooper
Corporate Member
I read an article in one of the woodworking magazines a few years ago that stated the forrests are more plentiful now than they were a hundred years ago. The thing that helps that is managed forrests, but if we send logs overseas to folks that are only intersted in making money and handling product we may end up forgetting about managed forrests and the importance of keeping a renewable resourse renewable. I have taken walks in the woods around our state parks and found that they are in bad need of managing. I find all kinds of hardwoods that are falling down and rotting, with nothing being done to care for the forrest floor or make it possible for new growth. You can't cut a protected tree so the state says, but why not harvest a few select ones that are in need of cutting and open up the canopy of the forrest for light and growth of other trees that could thrive if given a chance? Looks like money drives everything, and pride in what we have counts for nothing anymore. As for me, I wish I'd never heard of NAFTA, or anything like it as we have been shooting ourselves in the feet. :BangHead:

I have seen some harvest around my area of late, and wondered where the logs went. I have seen those machines out there chopping up the brush and limbs so I know at least something is done to keep waste down. I'm of the same opinion as some others in that it is hard to be a tree hugger and make furniture. My though is like this, trees were put here for many uses, and as long as we manage them poperly we will be fine. As for me, the best uses of a tree come after you cut it down.:)
 

Kyle

New User
Kyle Edwards
I read an article in one of the woodworking magazines a few years ago that stated the forests are more plentiful now than they were a hundred years ago.
I'm of the same opinion as some others in that it is hard to be a tree hugger and make furniture.

unfortunately the biodiversity of the forest stock is almost a mono-culture. More trees, less variety and smaller size.

I think it makes perfect sense to be a tree hugger and wood worker. If you don't manage your forests or value the wood then none of us will be sawyers or furniture makers for long.
 

b4man

New User
Barbara
Kyle,
This is a wonderful thread. Thank you for broaching the topic and the rest of you guys adding to the education of our members.:eusa_clap
I'm not politically inclined so I can't address the world economy issues. However, if NC isn't properly managing our forest maybe we could contact a few of our state Rep.'s about a volunteer program much like the highway clean up...one park at a time. Due to risk they could cut them and we could mill and remove!
Did I just hear someone call me "Alice"? As in Wonderland:lol: :lol:
 

Wildwood

New User
Wildwood
Yes, China has come to buy our Oak, Cherry, and Walnut lumber to make furniture to sell to us. Not sure their furniture has the same quality as what was built here. They also make enough chip board furniture with photo finish too!

Also blame our politicians for raising property taxes so high, growing hardwoods is a luxury most land owner’s can not afford. Look at the big lumber land owners (corporations) that have sold their timber land to developers. They’ve taken their profits and bought cheaper timber land and logs from off shore. Yes, we’ve benefited by being able to buy better grade flooring and decking materials from Asia, Australia and South America.

Lumber is still an important industry for North Carolina. If politicians wake up one day they’ll figure out could have more than just Xmas trees, chip wood, pallet, and veneer industry here. Those industries would not have to import lumber from Canada and Mexico.

Lands that grew trees, requires more money to build expensive infrastructure water, sewer, roads, and schools. Growth at any cost just equals sprawl!
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
It seems NC has begun to wake up some. I remember seeing something in the state of NC budget for helping the ailing furniture industry.
 
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