Glue temperature affect open time?

[Bas]

I am finally getting ready to glue up a little magazine rack. Only took four dry fits. All I need to do is give it a final sanding and it's ready to go.

The whole thing is joined via dowels. A grand total of 46. I need to put glue in the holes, glue on the dowels, glue on the sides, fiddle it together, and clamp it all up before the glue sets.

I figured that if I thin some Titebond III with a little water (5%), I should have roughly 15 minutes. That's going to be cutting it close. I was wondering if I could squeeze out (pun intended) a few extra minutes by putting the glue/ water mixture in the fridge to cool for a bit. TBIII has a chalk temperature of 47, so something in the 50-60 range should do nicely.

I could certainly try it (nothing like hard data!), but wanted to see if this was a really bad idea first.

Bas.

 

[BumoutBob]

Can't really answer the glue temperature question. Since nobody else is willing to jump in here, my thought is to glue in some of the dowls with out assembling the whole unit. Then when these are dry, finish up the gluing and clamping. I think Titebond III has a longer working time than Titebond II. My $.02.

 

[NCPete]

call the number on the bottle. IIRC, Titebond will readily answer your question. at least I hope so, because I have no clue.

 

[Ray Martin]

Bas,

I agree with calling the folks at Titebond. The three types (I, II, and III) all have different open times.

I also remember seeing a glue chart in one of the woodworking magazines.

- White Glue 5 to 10
- Yellow Glue 10 to 15
- Water Resistant 5 to 10 min
- Polyurethane 30 min
- Epoxy 5 min to 12 hrs (depending on mix)
- Instant seconds

They all have different minimum clamp times as well.

Don't forget to post some photos of the project when you finish.

Ray

 

[Bernhard]

As a rule of thumb, the set up time is cut in half for every 10 degrees Celsius rise in temperature. This holds true as long as there is no phase changes.
BUT instead of experimenting, I would get some plastic resin glue powder and mix a batch. That should give you amble open time (35 min).

Cheers,
Bernhard

 

[KC7CN]

Do some research on White glue. It is my understanding that it has a longer open time. Not as strong as Yellow glue, but more-than-likely, strong enough for your application.
Polyurethane has a long open time, but I have never used this type of glue.

This is a good post! I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

-Don

 

[Bas]

You know, I'm surprised with the lack of information on this topic. I did a fairly intensive search, but only found a couple of references to glue and temperature...such as someone who was gluing some doors in a 95 degree workshop.

I am very tempted to do a formal experiment. That is, test the open time of TBIII at 50, 60, 70 & 80 degrees, and see what the difference is, if any.
The only question is, how do you test that? Touching it to see if it's still tacky seems somewhat subjective.

Bernhard - I learned the exact same thing in high school chemistry. Reaction time is doubled for every 10 degree increase in temperature (Celsius/ Kelvin). Of course, we're dealing with a mixture of reaction and evaporation here, which makes it slightly more complicated.

I'll contact the folks at Titebond as well.

Bas.

 

[Gofor]

My experience is that Titebond II and III have very little difference in time before they start to set. This week I had Titebond III skimming over in 30 seconds (garage, high humidity, 96 degrees). For complex assemblies I use gorilla glue et all, where I can apply the glue to one part and just use a spray bottle of water for the other. The glue does not start setting until I put the two together, and it is slower than any of the titebonds. It does require positive clamping because of the expansion, but I have been able to get 15 minutes after assembly before I see signs that the expansion is occurring. I prefer titebond as it is easier to regulate the amount of squeeze out, but use the gorilla glue types for complex items.

JMTCW

Go

 

[Bas]

I e-mailed the friendly folks at Titebond the following question:
"I would assume that the lower the temperature, the longer the open time. Is there any information available that provides a comparison at say 50, 60, 70 and 80 degrees (F)?"

Their reply: "We don’t have any specific numbers at those temperatures. The Titebond III is a catalyzed glue. Heat and cold will affect the chemical reaction in the product. Heat definitely lessens the open time. Cold will extend the open time, but this affect is not as strong."

I did some ad-hoc testing by putting the glue in the refrigerator, and it does take slightly longer to start skinning over. But not much. If I ever have too much time, I'll get back to this.

BTW, I went with a polyurethane glue for the assembly. Man that foaming is a pain in the rump! Good thing I smeared Waxilit all over, or I'd still be scraping.

Bas.

 

[JimmyC]

Bas,
I've used the polyurethane glue from time to time, it works great in certain situations, but generally seems like a PITA to me. I always seem to use a little too much and end up with a lot of clean up due to expansion.:BangHead:
Well, good luck and post some pic's of the project when it's done.

Jimmy

I e-mailed the friendly folks at Titebond the following question:
"I would assume that the lower the temperature, the longer the open time. Is there any information available that provides a comparison at say 50, 60, 70 and 80 degrees (F)?"

Their reply: "We don’t have any specific numbers at those temperatures. The Titebond III is a catalyzed glue. Heat and cold will affect the chemical reaction in the product. Heat definitely lessens the open time. Cold will extend the open time, but this affect is not as strong."

I did some ad-hoc testing by putting the glue in the refrigerator, and it does take slightly longer to start skinning over. But not much. If I ever have too much time, I'll get back to this.

BTW, I went with a polyurethane glue for the assembly. Man that foaming is a pain in the rump! Good thing I smeared Waxilit all over, or I'd still be scraping.

Bas.