Centauro Classico Band Saw

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LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
I'm debating the purchase of a 24" Centauro Classico industrial band saw. Don't know anything about the brand but it's a solid looking machine. All I have been able to find on the net is it's made in Italy. No reviews of any kind. Any guidance will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
 

Jim M.

Woody
Corporate Member
I don't know anything about the brand or model, but if you can't find anything online about it, can you find parts?
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
I've worked on a 36" that was rebadged and sold by Powermatic. Your take is right, a good solid Italian-formula band saw. The one I worked on came new without a crown on the tires. I was there when a customer had just gotten it. I told them the tires needed crowning before it would track well. They poo-poo-ed that observation. Took them three years of frustration before they called. Once the tires were crowned, it worked great for them. It did come with Carter guides and that was a big improvement over the stock Euro-guides that would normally have come with it. If you can get it cheap enough, it should be worth the time and effort to get it into running condition.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Centauro makes Mini-Max's band saws in addition to their own private labeled band saws. Among the best in the world. A 24" is a very large and heavy saw. I have a 20" Centauro made Mini-Max (~750lbs) and I have trouble imagining myself needing more power or room. The electrical door and foot brake micro switches and the power switch are the primary weak areas on all band saws and easy to fix with off the shelf parts. They use standard Euro blade guides which are easy to use and bulletproof unless a previous owner has substituted something different. Most aftermarket (Carter, etc) parts are compatible.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
No clue on price. Do you know if it's 3 phase power or single phase? Most of these go in factories and they almost always use 3 phase. If you don't have it you will need it to run the motor. Factor in a 3-5hp rotary phase converter into your budget. Need to factor what is included ie: a new carbide blade can run you $3-400 and the general condition of the saw. A new saw in that size can run ~$5-6000. If it hasn't been in a factory running 24hrs/day for years I would offer half that if in very good shape. If it's coming out of a factory and runs I would offer 25%. If it's coming out of a factory and you don't know if it runs offer 25% off list minus price of a refurbed non-chinese motor.
 

LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
No clue on price. Do you know if it's 3 phase power or single phase? Most of these go in factories and they almost always use 3 phase. If you don't have it you will need it to run the motor. Factor in a 3-5hp rotary phase converter into your budget. Need to factor what is included ie: a new carbide blade can run you $3-400 and the general condition of the saw. A new saw in that size can run ~$5-6000. If it hasn't been in a factory running 24hrs/day for years I would offer half that if in very good shape. If it's coming out of a factory and runs I would offer 25%. If it's coming out of a factory and you don't know if it runs offer 25% off list minus price of a refurbed non-chinese motor.

It's been used at a technical school teaching ww. Three phase is not an issue. The guides are sloppy and the foot brake needs some TLC. The door hinges have been replaced and work well. This thing is a beast!
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
A new CO-600 model lists at the retailer's for $6600.00.

Three rules for pricing used machinery:

1. Condition
2. Condition
3. What do Harbor Freight and Grizzly sell a similar model for?

Humor aside, Condition is always a shot in the dark. There can be some 'gotcha' detail that the seller found unacceptable and decided to sell the machine. Will that detail be disclosed before the sale?
As long as you can go over the machine and hear it run, you'll be informed reasonably enough to make a buying decision. Pictures on the internet will tell you what model it is and isn't, but that's about it.
 

ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Centauro's are great machines as Mark said.

They are one of few actual band saw manufacturers in Italy. They private label a lot of machines for other distributors.

Parts should be available via McMaster Carr or the like, very interchangeable and generic type parts. Aside from like castings and wheels.

As for value if it needs the TLC you've described I'd say its worth $ 750 - 1250 tops. Not to say it couldn't bring twice that in an an auction to someone not familiar with the issues it has.
 

LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
Well, I bought the CL700 Centauro Classico for $650.00 now I need to load the 1,500 lb beast and get it in the shop. The saw comes from a community college and was used used in woodworking classes. I'm pretty excited:eusa_danc
Centauro CL700.jpg
Centauro CL700 (2).jpg
Cewntauro CL700 (3).jpg
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
Wow. I doubt if you have to go too far to get that running like a new $6000.00 plus machine.

Check the tires for a crown. If there's no crown there, then its likely that's the reason the saw was sold. Once crowned, the blade tracks like you want it to. A lot of Euro bandsaws came with no crown on the tires. When the makers were questioned about this, the owner was told in so many words that he's an idiot for questioning such a thing. Maybe things have changed these days.

That euro type guide, when worn out, will become your enemy. The quick solution is to get some Carter guides. Those Euro guides can be modified to run a lot better, but it takes some doing. The weak point is the bronze bushing wear in the side guides. Often that bushing wears so much that the guide wheels touch behind the blade.


Euro bsguide - 1.jpg

Euro bsguide - 1 (1).jpg

Euro bsguide - 2.jpg
Side guide detail showing the bronze bushing that goes bad.

Euro bsguide - 3.jpg
Back guide substitutes using off the shelf ball bearings.
 

LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
Is there a specific crown angle or degree?
Wow. I doubt if you have to go too far to get that running like a new $6000.00 plus machine.

Check the tires for a crown. If there's no crown there, then its likely that's the reason the saw was sold. Once crowned, the blade tracks like you want it to. A lot of Euro bandsaws came with no crown on the tires. When the makers were questioned about this, the owner was told in so many words that he's an idiot for questioning such a thing. Maybe things have changed these days.

That euro type guide, when worn out, will become your enemy. The quick solution is to get some Carter guides. Those Euro guides can be modified to run a lot better, but it takes some doing. The weak point is the bronze bushing wear in the side guides. Often that bushing wears so much that the guide wheels touch behind the blade.


View attachment 22773

View attachment 22774

View attachment 22775
Side guide detail showing the bronze bushing that goes bad.

View attachment 22776
Back guide substitutes using off the shelf ball bearings.
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
Is there a specific crown angle or degree?

5º to 7º is what I usually use, depending on the width of the wheel and the depth of the rubber. Years back I used the TLAR method (That Looks About Right). One day I measured the crown out of curiosity and that's where I got the angles. 7º is a wee bit better for a smaller saw using 1/4" blades. Rubber is squishy so tension on a wide band mellows things out. Mostly factories put a roundish crown on their tires. That works too, but it allows a little drift on the more narrow blades. I first did a v type crown because that's all I could do at the time. I haven't changed since and have seen no compelling consequences to make me want to change.

The nice thing about the design of those Euro band saws is that the shaft and wheel are both removed at the same time since the bearings are in the wheels. The shaft is gripped by a block of wood and the tire is spun as its fed into the sanding drum or whatever cutter you're using. Usually I'll take off about .010 at a time, sometimes a little more. It doesn't take much to get things crowned.


tirecrown - 1.jpg
A 36" wheel from a Centauro. The block of oak was drilled or the shaft then split so a c-clamp could hold it steady. The oak block was held in the vise.

tirecrown - 2.jpg
Because of the weight of the 36" wheel, I had to block up things so it didn't drift downwards.

tirecrown - 3.jpg
Doing the other part of the crown

tirecrown - 4.jpg
This is a SCMI 24" wheel being done the same way. It actually takes more time to rig a vacuum hose to the work area than the actual work itself.

On Vintagemachinery.org there's some interesting different ways people used for crowning.

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Tire Crowning.ashx
 

LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
Bob,
Thanks alot for the info and pics. I'm the kind of guy that can usually do something if I see it done or have pics. My SIL has a 90'X30' machine shop with lots of neat toys. I actually am allowed to use a few (not graduated to the CNCs yet). I see a PM bandsaw in one of your pics that looks identical to one of his. Probably pick the saw up later this week or early next week. I'll get some better pics and post progress reports. I just never can get everything done!!!

5º to 7º is what I usually use, depending on the width of the wheel and the depth of the rubber. Years back I used the TLAR method (That Looks About Right). One day I measured the crown out of curiosity and that's where I got the angles. 7º is a wee bit better for a smaller saw using 1/4" blades. Rubber is squishy so tension on a wide band mellows things out. Mostly factories put a roundish crown on their tires. That works too, but it allows a little drift on the more narrow blades. I first did a v type crown because that's all I could do at the time. I haven't changed since and have seen no compelling consequences to make me want to change.

The nice thing about the design of those Euro band saws is that the shaft and wheel are both removed at the same time since the bearings are in the wheels. The shaft is gripped by a block of wood and the tire is spun as its fed into the sanding drum or whatever cutter you're using. Usually I'll take off about .010 at a time, sometimes a little more. It doesn't take much to get things crowned.


On Vintagemachinery.org there's some interesting different ways people used for crowning.

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Tire Crowning.ashx
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
Looks like you're covered.
The choices will be how to do whatever you need rather than worrying about having the right tools in the first place.
 

LocoWoodWork

Steve
Corporate Member
Finally got the saw. My SIL drove down to Cape Fear Com. College today, they loaded it strapped and it's now sitting under shelter at my place. Unfortunately I'm at UNCH for some follow up tests concluding tomorrow with a 3hr MRI. Can't wait to get back and get the saw in the shop and running. Here's a few pics he sent me:
Loading at CFCC
PkUp Cape Fear CC.jpeg
Arrived at shop.jpg
Under shelter behind my shop
 

Roy G

Roy
Senior User
Steve, when you unload your saw, please remove the table first. I helped a guy move his shop once and watched as his 36" bandsaw tipped over and smashed the table to pieces.

Roy G
 
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