Suggestions and Ideas Appreciated

[Mt. Gomer]

I wasn't sure where to put this as it's probably not technically a woodworking question but it's certainly the type of thing we all deal with in our homes (and fix in our shops).

I have a love/hate relationship with one of the "features" in my house: The built-in gas fireplace w/electronics cubby above. Here's a picture.

I hate it because: 1) Does anyone REALLY like gas fire place inserts? 2) Who puts expensive electronics OVER a fire? 3) It's fairly cheesy looking

I love it because: 1) Just flip the switch? Sweet! 2) Ice Storm, no power, no heat? No problem! 3) It's a family room not a formal reception area, with two little kids running around functionality trumps aesthetics, I can pretty it up later. 4) It is a space saver. Since the fireplace and TV extend outside the house I get a few extra feet of usable room width.

So, the challenge of the day is to deal with issue #2, cooking electronics. The problem isn't actually as big as I thought at first. The heat doesn't rise directly out of the firebox. The build meets all of the safety guidelines in the fireplace manual and the floor of the cubby stays quite cool. The problem is that the heat from the fireplace goes up the front face then hits the first shelf and goes into the lower compartments. The equipment there and the bottom of the first shelf can get quite warm. The TV area doesn't seem to be a problem. I can push the TV back a few inches so the heat rises past it and it is a large enough space that it dissipates.

So far I've come up with three options. 1) Buy a larger, metal hood to go above the fireplace which would (hopefully) direct the heat out away from the cubby (basically a larger, uglier version of the gold deflector in the picture) 2) Build some sort of shield (perhaps temporary, something you slide in when you light the fire, or something more permanent in the form of a small mantel or shelf) 3) Prevent the heat from entering the lower compartments by adding a door.

I'm open to brainstorming on all three (or others if you have ideas) but I've lately been spending most brain cycles on #3. I was thinking that a sheet of transparent material (lexan, plexi, glass) that is cut to fit cover the lower compartments (there is a small recess, about 1/4 of an inch, that it could fit into) and hinged for access might be the cleanest solution for the near future. It would allow the heat to travel right on past and shouldn't heat up much itself as it would be a recessed vertical plane. The one additional caveat about this material would be that it would need to not interfere with remote controls....

Anyway, the topic is now open for discussion! All thoughts, ideas, and comments welcome. Much thanks in advance.

Travis

 

[Ozzie-x]

I would try the plexiglas first, seems cheap, quick and easy. I don't see why it wouldn't work. What temperature of heat would the plexiglas be exposed to? May want to look at the ambient temperature characteristics/melting point of lexan vs plexiglas vs the actual temperature above the fire place. May not be a concern, just thinking out loud..... Glass would be a PIA and more of a challenge to mount, not to mention safety, but would sustain under higher temps.

 

[Tar Heel]

You might consider installing a very small fan behind the electronics. Back in my ham radio days they were called muffin fans.

 

[MrAudio815]

I am thinking a little differnetly,

How about a small fan behind your electronics that will blow air past your electronics and blow the rising heated air from your fireplace hopefully far enough away from all your electronics?

To me that would seem to be the easiest fix and would keep your electronics cool in the summer time when you don't need the fireplace.


Ahhh You beat me to it Stuart...Great minds think alike~!

 

[timf67]

At first I too thought of the fan behind the electronics, but all it will do is circulate the hot air from the fireplace if there is no source of cooler air to pull from. I would also be worried about the plexiglass/lexan doors trapping heat in. Do you have a ceiling fan in the room? If so, you can circulate the air in the room to help even out the temperature. Just a thought, though some folks might find it odd to be running a ceiling fan and fireplace at the same time...:eusa_thin

 

[Mt. Gomer]

At first I too thought of the fan behind the electronics, but all it will do is circulate the hot air from the fireplace if there is no source of cooler air to pull from. I would also be worried about the plexiglass/lexan doors trapping heat in. Do you have a ceiling fan in the room? If so, you can circulate the air in the room to help even out the temperature. Just a thought, though some folks might find it odd to be running a ceiling fan and fireplace at the same time...:eusa_thin

I've actually tried the ceiling fan. I reverse the blades so (theoretically) there is a downdraft along the wall. It does help a little, we can leave the fire running a bit longer before I get worried about heat, but it's certainly not a fix.

I thought about a fan too but I think, except for when the fire is on, it would be overkill as we don't have anything too fancy and there is a lot of air volume so heat usually dissipates pretty well. I don't think the doors would be too much of an issue trapping in heat (caused by the electronics) for this reason. There are also quite a few holes in the TV shelf which allows for some air movement.

 

[skysharks]

I too, would suggest a fan installed behind the electronics blowing forward. In addition I also agree that having the ceiling fan on, even on low would really aid.
I use my gas logs quite a bit. In using them I always have the ceiling fans on in the house on low to aid in circulating this warm air out of and into other rooms.

Clear doors on the lower areas would be an option, but in doing so, I would wonder about heat buildup from the electronics them selves.:icon_scra I know that they do need air circulation as they themselves generate heat. If the area was not air-tight and could allow a bit of air to move, mmmmmm.:icon_scra

I did install a brass deflector on the top of mine as the mantale was getting hot. Prior to installing the deflector if there were candles (x-mas decorations), they would de-shape from the heat:BangHead:. Now no problems the mantle stays cool-warm and the paint on the mantle doesn't change color over time from the heat:icon_thum.

 

[algustaf]

Rip off the basic 445 casing that surrounds the whole TV/electronics unit. Then build a small mantle/shelf extension about 6"-9" from the lower shelf unit. Build up some decent looking legs from floor up to the mantle for visual stability, then re-trim the TV/electronics area with either the same basic casing or duplicate the legs from floor at about 50% scale going up towards ceiling and trim out with some sort of ornamental header type thing.

The legs from floor should sit upon the granite and the mantle should protrude an inch at least from the width of the legs, depending on how you would trim out the mantle with some sort of profile. Check out the catalog of profiles available through Moulding and Millwork, these should be available at a builders supply (like Talbert's in Durham) and are pretty standard profiles to work with. It is all paint grade, so good quality finger joint 1X material would work well (not that knotty stuff they call finger joint and sell at the big box stores), you can get it in 16' lengths upto 16" wide. It is pretty stable if painted.

Well at least that's what I would do (or think about doing)

 

[Mike Davis]

I always try to work from a point of informed planning.

Thinking the electronics may get hot is just assumption.

Get a couple thermometers or a small electronic recording thermometer to place on the shelf near the electronic equipment. If you record temperatures above 100°F then you need to take action to reduce the temperatures.

A fan may work, a deflector or shield of some sort may be needed or just move the equipment to another location and put something less sensitive on that shelf.

But, until you know if there really is a problem you can't know what (if anything) should be done.

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Get a couple thermometers or a small electronic recording thermometer to place on the shelf near the electronic equipment. If you record temperatures above 100°F then you need to take action to reduce the temperatures. .

Where do you find such a device that is both functional and affordable?

Thanks!

Travis

 

[Mike Davis]

I have a LaCross indoor/outdoor thermometer that records the high and low temp and I think it was around thirty dollars. Do an online search for recording thermometer or various related words.

Here's one for $22

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/general/temperature/wall_desk_mounted/dtr900.htm#0003054?ref=gbase

 

[Mt. Gomer]

When in doubt, google. Why didn't I think of that!?

Thanks!

Travis

 

[Dudelive]

If and when you find that the electronics are getting too warm, you could install a false back in the area where the electronics are if space permits and put a muffin fan behind there with a grill. Then see if you can get air into that area from somewhere else that is not as hot, maybe from the side or all the way to the ceiling. Another room would be ideal but that might be sorta hard with the location of the electronics. Aluminum dryer vent hose would work if you could find a way to get it there and be hidden.

 

[rahimlee54]

^ what he said. Blowing the hot air out from behind the electronics just pushes it through them again. It should be sucked out and new cooler air flowing in. That is the design with most in wall equipment racks.

Althought a fan behind would probably get the job done. Also a flat screen and moving the electronics up a shelf is another idea.

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Thanks for the great suggestions everyone. It looks like more research and planning is required.

Al - I'm right there with you but before I go that far I need to plan out the rest of the room. Wife wants new book cases, end tables, and a coffee table, eventually. The kids are still in the "see what happens throw hard objects accross the room, write on things with permanent markers, and dig a fork into the kitchen table stage" (you know, the scientific method stage) so I think it's going to be a few years before I do too many serious upgrades in this room.

The fan idea might work but I'd have to do some experimentation. The only other place to get "cool" air into the back of the cabinent would be outside. That entire recessed area is ouside the house (where an chimney would normally be). The only electronics in the lower compartments are a Tivo and a DVD player, neither of which generate too much heat on their own so I think my primary concernt is keeping heat from the fireplace out, not getting heat from the equipment out.

Mike - I'll be ordering a recording thermometer. Even though I'm reasonably certain I've got a problem that needs to be solved (when the fire is on it gets quite hot in there) it will be good to know exactly what I'm dealing with and how much my various experiments help.

In the meantime I think I'll throw together a temporary shield we can put up when we use the fire.

Thanks again.

Travis

 

[Sharp Blade]

^ what he said. Blowing the hot air out from behind the electronics just pushes it through them again. It should be sucked out and new cooler air flowing in. That is the design with most in wall equipment racks.

Although a fan behind would probably get the job done. Also a flat screen and moving the electronics up a shelf is another idea.

I agree with the above. However, using an exhaust fan will be noisey. Also, I was wondering, since heat rises, and this is a Gas Foreplace, won't the fireplace have a heatshield/deflector on it's interior in order to move the heat out? I know we are talking about once the heat leaves the front of the fireplace. But at that point, wouldn't the blower in the fireplace just need to blow harder? :eusa_thin

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Unfortunatley there isn't a blower in the unit itself....

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Well, I did some experimenting and it looks like a mantel/shelf is the best answer. I took a piece of hardboard I had, cut it to the length of the lower shelf and slotted it so it would slide around the divider and under the tivo and dvd player. It protrudes about 3 inches and even with the fire running over an hour the equipment and shelf stays completely cool. The hardboard doesn't even warm up that much since there's nothing to trap the heat.

I saw this plan in one of my magazine a while back: http://plansnow.com/dn1140.html

I think, once I get the shop in working order, I'll build one to use as a mantle and paint it white to match the room as it is now. My wife said she'd like a couple for the kid's rooms so I'll just make a set all at once. Also, when I decide how I really want the room to look, the shelf would be usable somewhere else.

Ok, so who wants to engineer my dust collection ductwork?

Trav

 

[Gofor]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have one also (gas fireplace, but without the electronics cabinet above it). You probably will not get any heat with the power out. If it is like mine, the regulator valve to let gas into it has an electrical switch which will not let gas to the burner without power. (strike 1)

It is in the same room as the house heat thermostat. So, while you run it in cold weather, no heat is going to any other room (strike 2)

Its a bad energy loss monster when you are not running it. Cold or hot air comes in through the fireplace cavity all year long. If you don't believe me, tape a plastic bag over the front and watch it billow and retract as the wind blows. (I did that last winter and saved about $10/mo electric bill this past year) Its about equivalent to leaving a window part-way open all year around. (strike 3)

I am currently building a lexan insert to seal mine off, and will be moving the TV in front of it as soon as I get the speaker/cable wires rerouted (but LOML has also decided this would be a good time for "us" repaint the walls, etc as long as "we" are rearranging all the furniture, so project is on hold until she finds the "right" color for "us" to paint)

IMHO, the gas insert fireplaces in the newer homes are just put there to burn up your money, both on purchase and forever after.

Go

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have one also (gas fireplace, but without the electronics cabinet above it). You probably will not get any heat with the power out. If it is like mine, the regulator valve to let gas into it has an electrical switch which will not let gas to the burner without power. (strike 1)

It is in the same room as the house heat thermostat. So, while you run it in cold weather, no heat is going to any other room (strike 2)

Its a bad energy loss monster when you are not running it. Cold or hot air comes in through the fireplace cavity all year long. If you don't believe me, tape a plastic bag over the front and watch it billow and retract as the wind blows. (I did that last winter and saved about $10/mo electric bill this past year) Its about equivalent to leaving a window part-way open all year around. (strike 3)

I am currently building a lexan insert to seal mine off, and will be moving the TV in front of it as soon as I get the speaker/cable wires rerouted (but LOML has also decided this would be a good time for "us" repaint the walls, etc as long as "we" are rearranging all the furniture, so project is on hold until she finds the "right" color for "us" to paint)

IMHO, the gas insert fireplaces in the newer homes are just put there to burn up your money, both on purchase and forever after.

Go

Well, I don't think it's quite that bad for us. Thought I've not actually tried it w/o the power on I was told by the previous owner that it kept them warm during the last ice storm (no power).... might be worth a test though. There isn't any power running to the area. There is an low voltage switch to turn the fire on but my understanding is that is uses the heat from the pilot lite to generate that (or I misremembering and inventing that myself). I don't see any reason it wouldn't work when the power was out. If it was our only source of heat I'd expect us to have to pretty much stay in the same room....

Also, we don't use it as a primary source of heat. We keep our thermostat fairly low in the winter (around 65) and my wife likes to turn it on when she first comes down in the morning to take the edge off a abit. It works well for that, and to cozy things up in the evenings. The thermostat is in another room so this doesn't throw the main heat off.

In terms of weatherproofing we're also not too bad off. It's a direct vent unit so it's already sealed off. I'm sure there is some energy loss as it's just the glass pane between us and the outside but there's no direct air flow. We were getting some draft from under the unit. Turned out to be coming in through the hole the gas line used to come up from the basement. I added a good layer of insulation from underneath and that is much improved. I also kill the pilot light and shut off the gas line for most of the year to save money...