Spontaneous Combustion

[John Reeves]

Tonight, as I was cleaning up after a few hours on the shop, I smelled something not right. I kept sniffing and the trail led me to my trash (a plastic trash bag in a wooden frame). I noticed smoke coming from the little bit of trsh I had in the bag. I had just emptied the trash before I started working this afternoon and had very little in the bag.

I took the bag outside, dumped the stuff on the grass and squirted it wit the hose.

I had been wiping BLO on the Maple chest of drawers I an in the middle of. I use those blue paper towels to remove the excess BLO after 10 to 20 min. I probably had 20 to 25 oil soaked paper towels in the trash and it has been 30 to 45 min since I had finished.

I am sharing this because I am so surprised at how little it took to cause this. I have read about it, including the warnings about not keeping oil soaked rags but I have done this so many times before (put BLO soaked paper towels in the trash). I do not know what the difference was or maybe how close I had come to a disaster before.

Even a metal trashcan would not have made a difference I think as the plastic was not an issue. It was not melted just a bit warm.

I would appreciate hearing what I should do with oily rags for an hour or two after I wipe something like BLO. Put them in a metal can outside is the best thing that I can think of at the moment.

Lucky in Durham

 

[ebarr]

John,

Thanks for the reminder. I am glad you caught it before it became a bigger issue for you.

I use the blue paper towels to in a plastic trash can. Guess I will start being more careful.

 

[DaveO]

I take all my rags that I use to apply oil-based finishes and lay them out out on the shop floor or gravel driveway flat for a day or so. So far I have had no problem with that system.
My biggest fear is not from finishing supplies but...

Spontaneous Human Combustion

Spontaneous human combustion (SHC) is the alleged burning of a person's body without a readily apparent, identifiable external source of ignition. The combustion may result in simple burns and blisters to the skin, smoking, or a complete incineration of the body. The latter is the form most often 'recognized' as SHC. There is much speculation and controversy over SHC. It is not a proven natural occurrence, but many theories have attempted to explain SHC's existence and how it may occur. The two most common explanations offered to account for apparent SHC are the non-spontaneous "wick effect" fire, and the rare discharge called static flash fires. Although mathematically it can be shown that the human body contains enough energy stored in the form of fat and other tissues to consume it completely, in normal circumstances bodies will not sustain a flame on their own.

History of Spontaneous Human Combustion
Many people believe that Spontaneous Human Combustion was first documented in such early texts as the Bible, but, scientifically speaking, these accounts are too old and secondhand to be seen as reliable evidence.
Over the past 300 years, there have been more than 200 reports of persons burning to a crisp for no apparent reason.
The first reliable historic evidence of Spontaneous Human Combustion appears to be from the year 1673, when Frenchman Jonas Dupont published a collection of Spontaneous Human Combustion cases and studies entitled De Incendiis Corporis Humani Spontaneis. Dupont was inspired to write this book after encountering records of the Nicole Millet case, in which a man was acquitted of the murder of his wife when the court was convinced that she had been killed by spontaneous combustion. Millet, a hard-drinking Parisian was found reduced to ashes in his straw bed, leaving just his skull and finger bones. The straw matting was only lightly damaged. Dupont's book on this strange subject brought it out of the realm of folkloric rumor and into the popular public imagination.
On April 9, 1744, Grace Pett, 60, an alcoholic residing in Ipswich England, was found on the floor by her daughter like "a log of wood consumed by a fire, without apparent flame." Nearby clothing was undamaged.
In the 1800's is evidenced in the number of writers that called on it for a dramatic death scene. Most of these authors were hacks that worked on the 19th century equivalent of comic books, "penny dreadfuls", so no one got too worked up about it; but two big names in the literary world also used SHC as a dramatic device, and one did cause a stir.
The first of these two authors was Captain Marryat who, in his novel Jacob Faithful, borrowed details from a report in the Times of London of 1832 to describe the death of his lead character's mother, who is reduced to "a sort of unctuous pitchey cinder."
Twenty years later, in 1852, Charles Dickens used Spontaneous Human Combustion to kill off a character named Krook in his novel Bleak House. Krook was a heavy alcoholic, true to the popular belief at the time that SHC was caused by excessive drinking. The novel caused a minor uproar; George Henry Lewes, philosopher and critic, declared that SHC was impossible, and derided Dickens' work as perpetuating a uneducated superstition. Dickens responded to this statement in the preface of the 2nd edition of his work, making it quite clear that he had researched the subject and knew of about thirty cases of SHC. The details of Krook's death in Bleak House were directly modeled on the details of the death of the Countess Cornelia de Bandi Cesenate by this extraordinary means; the only other case that Dickens actually cites details from is the Nicole Millet account that inspired Dupont's book about 100 years earlier.
In 1951the Mary Reeser case recaptured the public interest in Spontaneous Human Combustion. Mrs. Reeser, 67, was found in her apartment on the morning of July 2, 1951, reduced to a pile of ashes, a skull, and a completely undamaged left foot. This event has become the foundation for many a book on the subject of SHC since, the most notable being Michael Harrison's Fire From Heaven, printed in 1976. Fire From Heaven has become the standard reference work on Spontaneous Human Combustion.
On May 18, 1957, Anna Martin, 68, of West Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was found incinerated, leaving only her shoes and a portion of her torso. The medical examiner estimated that temperatures must have reached 1,700 to 2,000 degrees, yet newspapers two feet away were found intact.
On December 5, 1966, the ashes of Dr. J. Irving Bentley, 92, of Coudersport, Pennsylvania, were discovered by a meter reader. Dr. Bentley's body apparently ignited while he was in the bathroom and burned a 2-1/2-by-3-foot hole through the flooring, with only a portion of one leg remaining intact. Nearby paint was unscorched.
Perhaps the most famous case occurred in St. Petersburg, Florida. Mary Hardy Reeser, a 67-year-old widow, spontaneously combusted while sitting in her easy chair on July 1, 1951. The next morning, her next door neighbor tried the doorknob, found it hot to the touch and went for help. She returned to find Mrs. Reeser, or what was left of her, in a blackened circle four feet in diameter.
All that remained of the 175-pound woman and her chair was a few blackened seat springs, a section of her backbone, a shrunken skull the size of a baseball, and one foot encased in a black stain slipper just beyond the four-foot circle. Plus about 10 pounds of ashes.
The police report declared that Mrs. Reeser went up in smoke when her highly flammable rayon-acetate nightgown caught fire, perhaps because of a dropped cigarette.
But one medical examiner stated that the 3,000-degree heat required to destroy the body should have destroyed the apartment as well. In fact, damage was minimal - the ceiling and upper walls were covered with soot. No chemical accelerants, incidentally, were found.
In 1944 Peter Jones, survived this experience and reported that there was no sensation of heat nor sighting of flames. He just saw smoke. He stated that he felt no pain.

Theories about Spontaneous Human Combustion
- Alchoholism - many Spontaneous Human Combustion vicitms have been alcoholics. But experiments in the 19th century demonstrated that flesh impregnated with alcohol will not burn with the intense heat associated with Spontaneous Human Combustion.
- Deposits of flammable body fat - Many victims have been overweight - yet others have been skinny.
- Devine Intervention - Centuries ago people felt that the explosion was a sign from God of devine punishment.
- Build-up of static electricity - no known form of electrostatic discharge could cause a human to burst into flames.
- An explosive combination of chemicals can form in the digestive system - due to poor diet.
- Electrical fields that exist within the human body might be capable of 'short circuiting' somehow, that some sort of atomic chain reaction could generate tremendous internal heat.
No satisfactory explanation of Spontaneous Human Combustion has ever been given. It is still an unsolved mystery.



:5eek::5eek:

Dave

 

[Trent Mason]

Dave, I am almost in tears for the second time tonight from one of your posts. :rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm:

John,

Thank you so much for sharing. The closest I've come to spontanious combustion in the shop was when I mixed WAY TOO MUCH epoxy in a paint rolling tin and noticed it smoking like a chimney a half hour later. I took the tin out into the yard and just watched it for an hour or so before it calmed down. I'm glad that the shop and the family are safe!

Trent

 

[PeteQuad]

I've been throwing rags and paper towels in a metal can with water outside. My only problem is - what do I do next? The can is pretty full and I have to keep chasing my toddlers away.

 

[Gofor]

I've been throwing rags and paper towels in a metal can with water outside. My only problem is - what do I do next? The can is pretty full and I have to keep chasing my toddlers away.

Wring out the water and throw in the trash right before disposal day. Most coatings do not pose an environmental hazard at a land fill.

Go

 

[jeff...]

I take all my rags that I use to apply oil-based finishes and lay them out out on the shop floor or gravel driveway flat for a day or so. So far I have had no problem with that system.
My biggest fear is not from finishing supplies but...

Spontaneous Human Combustion

Spontaneous human combustion (SHC) is the alleged burning of a person's body without a readily apparent, identifiable external source of ignition. The combustion may result in simple burns and blisters to the skin, smoking, or a complete incineration of the body. The latter is the form most often 'recognized' as SHC. There is much speculation and controversy over SHC. It is not a proven natural occurrence, but many theories have attempted to explain SHC's existence and how it may occur. The two most common explanations offered to account for apparent SHC are the non-spontaneous "wick effect" fire, and the rare discharge called static flash fires. Although mathematically it can be shown that the human body contains enough energy stored in the form of fat and other tissues to consume it completely, in normal circumstances bodies will not sustain a flame on their own.

History of Spontaneous Human Combustion
Many people believe that Spontaneous Human Combustion was first documented in such early texts as the Bible, but, scientifically speaking, these accounts are too old and secondhand to be seen as reliable evidence.
Over the past 300 years, there have been more than 200 reports of persons burning to a crisp for no apparent reason.
The first reliable historic evidence of Spontaneous Human Combustion appears to be from the year 1673, when Frenchman Jonas Dupont published a collection of Spontaneous Human Combustion cases and studies entitled De Incendiis Corporis Humani Spontaneis. Dupont was inspired to write this book after encountering records of the Nicole Millet case, in which a man was acquitted of the murder of his wife when the court was convinced that she had been killed by spontaneous combustion. Millet, a hard-drinking Parisian was found reduced to ashes in his straw bed, leaving just his skull and finger bones. The straw matting was only lightly damaged. Dupont's book on this strange subject brought it out of the realm of folkloric rumor and into the popular public imagination.
On April 9, 1744, Grace Pett, 60, an alcoholic residing in Ipswich England, was found on the floor by her daughter like "a log of wood consumed by a fire, without apparent flame." Nearby clothing was undamaged.
In the 1800's is evidenced in the number of writers that called on it for a dramatic death scene. Most of these authors were hacks that worked on the 19th century equivalent of comic books, "penny dreadfuls", so no one got too worked up about it; but two big names in the literary world also used SHC as a dramatic device, and one did cause a stir.
The first of these two authors was Captain Marryat who, in his novel Jacob Faithful, borrowed details from a report in the Times of London of 1832 to describe the death of his lead character's mother, who is reduced to "a sort of unctuous pitchey cinder."
Twenty years later, in 1852, Charles Dickens used Spontaneous Human Combustion to kill off a character named Krook in his novel Bleak House. Krook was a heavy alcoholic, true to the popular belief at the time that SHC was caused by excessive drinking. The novel caused a minor uproar; George Henry Lewes, philosopher and critic, declared that SHC was impossible, and derided Dickens' work as perpetuating a uneducated superstition. Dickens responded to this statement in the preface of the 2nd edition of his work, making it quite clear that he had researched the subject and knew of about thirty cases of SHC. The details of Krook's death in Bleak House were directly modeled on the details of the death of the Countess Cornelia de Bandi Cesenate by this extraordinary means; the only other case that Dickens actually cites details from is the Nicole Millet account that inspired Dupont's book about 100 years earlier.
In 1951the Mary Reeser case recaptured the public interest in Spontaneous Human Combustion. Mrs. Reeser, 67, was found in her apartment on the morning of July 2, 1951, reduced to a pile of ashes, a skull, and a completely undamaged left foot. This event has become the foundation for many a book on the subject of SHC since, the most notable being Michael Harrison's Fire From Heaven, printed in 1976. Fire From Heaven has become the standard reference work on Spontaneous Human Combustion.
On May 18, 1957, Anna Martin, 68, of West Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was found incinerated, leaving only her shoes and a portion of her torso. The medical examiner estimated that temperatures must have reached 1,700 to 2,000 degrees, yet newspapers two feet away were found intact.
On December 5, 1966, the ashes of Dr. J. Irving Bentley, 92, of Coudersport, Pennsylvania, were discovered by a meter reader. Dr. Bentley's body apparently ignited while he was in the bathroom and burned a 2-1/2-by-3-foot hole through the flooring, with only a portion of one leg remaining intact. Nearby paint was unscorched.
Perhaps the most famous case occurred in St. Petersburg, Florida. Mary Hardy Reeser, a 67-year-old widow, spontaneously combusted while sitting in her easy chair on July 1, 1951. The next morning, her next door neighbor tried the doorknob, found it hot to the touch and went for help. She returned to find Mrs. Reeser, or what was left of her, in a blackened circle four feet in diameter.
All that remained of the 175-pound woman and her chair was a few blackened seat springs, a section of her backbone, a shrunken skull the size of a baseball, and one foot encased in a black stain slipper just beyond the four-foot circle. Plus about 10 pounds of ashes.
The police report declared that Mrs. Reeser went up in smoke when her highly flammable rayon-acetate nightgown caught fire, perhaps because of a dropped cigarette.
But one medical examiner stated that the 3,000-degree heat required to destroy the body should have destroyed the apartment as well. In fact, damage was minimal - the ceiling and upper walls were covered with soot. No chemical accelerants, incidentally, were found.
In 1944 Peter Jones, survived this experience and reported that there was no sensation of heat nor sighting of flames. He just saw smoke. He stated that he felt no pain.

Theories about Spontaneous Human Combustion
- Alchoholism - many Spontaneous Human Combustion vicitms have been alcoholics. But experiments in the 19th century demonstrated that flesh impregnated with alcohol will not burn with the intense heat associated with Spontaneous Human Combustion.
- Deposits of flammable body fat - Many victims have been overweight - yet others have been skinny.
- Devine Intervention - Centuries ago people felt that the explosion was a sign from God of devine punishment.
- Build-up of static electricity - no known form of electrostatic discharge could cause a human to burst into flames.
- An explosive combination of chemicals can form in the digestive system - due to poor diet.
- Electrical fields that exist within the human body might be capable of 'short circuiting' somehow, that some sort of atomic chain reaction could generate tremendous internal heat.
No satisfactory explanation of Spontaneous Human Combustion has ever been given. It is still an unsolved mystery.



:5eek::5eek:

Dave

I think that could happen from eating to many pinto beans

 

[Bas]

Perhaps the people who combusted were covered in paint.....so be caerful of any paint stains on your clothing, skin etc.

 

[mcoston2]

Here is a little FYI,
Remember the fire triangle you learned about in school? For a fire to start, you must have three elements: oxygen, fuel and sufficient heat. How much heat depends on the type of fuel. All oily rags start with two of the three legs of that triangle. They themselves are the fuel, and oxygen is present in the air. Only heat is missing.
Drying oils are a hazard because they generate their own heat as they polymerize, which is how they cure. This particular type of polymerization is a form of oxidation. Rapid oxidation is another term for fire, but even slower oxidation generates heat.
Such rags can spontaneously combust (burst into flames) if left in a stack or pile, because the heat generated by their polymerization, when trapped in the pile, can hit the auto-ignition temperature of the oil. That is the temperature at which a fire will start spontaneously without a spark.
Spread out one layer thick, rags dissipate that heat, and will not spontaneously burst into flame. Once they are dry and hard, polymerization stops, and no more heat is generated. At that point, these rags are completely safe and can go into the household trash.
Non-drying oils will not spontaneously combust at room temperature, but they will catch fire if a spark or heat is added. They have only two of the three legs of the fire triangle present: they are lacking sufficient heat or spark. These non-drying oils, and that includes lard or bacon grease, will catch fire if they get hot enough. Without a spark, that won't happen at room temperature, but heat bacon or other grease sufficiently in a pan and it most certainly will catch on fire. Hence, they are also a danger.

This is something to remember.:icon_thum

 

[woodArtz]

Here's what I did...http://tinyurl.com/2ct2su

It's not a cure all, but it is supposed to help.

 

[Tarhead]

I think you're very fortunate and appreciate you bringing this potential disaster up! Good to have a reminder.

I just hang my wiping rags/paper towels over the edge of the trash can until stiff and then toss in the trash. After they're dry they're no problem.

 

[FredFord]

I believe one major factor in spontaneous combustion is compression. How tight do you press the paper towel before you discard it. You can get by with loosley packed towewels for a long time but it is not safe. If you throw somthing on top you are in trouble.

I put mine out to dry, add some water and keep them loose when disposing. Buring them is always safer. Remember that your trash is most likely going into a trash truck that will compress the load. You need to protect the truck as well.

 

[dancam]

Thanks for sharing. I think we all know the hazards here with oily rags but we can get complacent.

I usually spread out the rags on the deck outside the shop and then i put them in a lidded bucket with water. When I've got a good quantity I wring then out and put in the trash the morning of p/u.

Dan C.

 

[JimmyC]

Here's what I did...http://tinyurl.com/2ct2su

It's not a cure all, but it is supposed to help.

Bob,

These cans work very well, I've worked with them in industrial situations for years. The trick is to make sure that the top is closed tight all of the time, eliminating the oxygen part of the combustion triangle. The holes in the bottom keep the air circulating underneath, thus not allowing heat build up.

Jimmy

 

[dino drosas]

Hey Dave, If you persist in consuming those large quanities of that liquid(???) pictured in your avitar; we may have the first documented case of SHC in NC, thus passing on the crown of "Grand Master Poster".
:kamahlitu

 

[TV]

I take my oil soaked rags and lay them out side by side usually on the outside trash can. They seem to stiffen up quicker spread out and if I am going to start a fire, I would rather it be outside.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

tv

 

[John Reeves]

This morning I looked at all the trash that I dumped in the yard last night (the neighbors are use to this type of behavior) and then squirted with a hose (the neighbors are also use to this behavior as well).

I found two charred receipts from Lowe's. That has got to mean something!

This afternoon I have a new problem, lots of oily blue paper towels neatly spread out on the shop floor. I am running out of space.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[NCPete]

how about an old indoor laundry rack??? seems I have seen that before.

 

[CaptnA]

A few moments of caution can ease a lifetime of regret.
Spontaneous combustion is real. There are certain factors that influence it. I have done fire investigation for many years. It can and does happen.
First off the oils in question have to be organic. Not hydrocarbon. that 10w-40 out of the chevy is not going to be a problem.
Linseed oil, BLO, danish oil etc - that is one of the culprits. Guys/gals one warning. DON'T think it ONLY happens out in the shop. Get it on your clothes and guess what, you may transfer the problem into the house.
As mentioned in one post the 'fire triangle' is heat-fuel-oxygen. The 'fire tetrahedron' is heat-fuel-oxygen- and the uninhibited chemical reaction.
It isn't compression that causes the problem. The simple answer is insulation. You could spread linseed oil all over a rag and pile heavy blocks on it and nothing would happen. Take that same rag and pile sawdust all over it fairly deep and the potential begins.
We know that things burn (fuel) and we know that there is oxygen in the air ( roughly 20.8%.) Heat comes from many sources - electrical resistance/arcing/shorts mechanical - compression/friction/ friction sparks. Fires happen when fuel comes into contat with enough heat to break down the fuel with enough oxygen to form an ignitable mixture and there is enough heat to ignite this mixture.
Spontaneous ignition happens as the oils in rags break down and the heat is insulated - not allowed to disipate - and builds up to the point that the fuel breaks down and mixes with oxygen and the heat continues and ignites the mixture.
Not so sure? Stick your hand under the mulch around your flowers/bushes. Notice the heat is higher than on top? The mulch itself insulates and as it breaks down gives off heat. try the same thing in a barn full of hay. Put that hay up green or when its rained on. More than likely you'll have a barn fire. that is just fire chemistry/ fire behavior.
For those oily rags. Leave them out in moving air to dry where they can't cuild up heat. Place them in a can with enough water to cover them. Store them in a metal can with a tight fitting lid that will keep oxygen out. They might smolder in the last case but ought not to spread if they should ignite.
few mores thoughts -
Know a little about chemicals. Not that most of us would have things such as chlorine in our shops - but are you sure??? How many of us use kitty litter as oil absorbant? There is a brand of kitty litter on the market that has 16% by weight chlorine. Chlorine can mix with chemicals (oil etc) and ignite a fire. the chlorine is an oxidizer. That means it produces/releases isw own oxygen and will burn even if in an airtight container.
getting long here so let me finish with -
Keep and check the fire extinguisher in your shop. Put it by the door so you are getting out in the case of a fire. If you see the extinguisher you can get it, look at the fire, look at the exit, and then make your choice about can you really handle this. If not you're at the door.
How many of us have a smoke detector in the shop? My shop is detached. BUT - I might hear it if it goes off - my dogs might. Guarantee with nothing down there I have no chance. If I was working on the lathe I get oblivious and an alarm would help. For under $5 its worth the chance it might help.
And about that extinguisher - learn how to use it before you need it.
Its simple - Stand 8-15 feet from the fire. You can move closer as you need to. Too close and you blow burning stuff around!
~Pull the pin
~Point at the base of the flames - not the top
~Squeeze the handle
~Sweep back and forth across the base of the fire.
Call 911. First preferably last at least. If you need an insurance claim, they will want a copy of the fire report from the fire department.
And if anyone wants to investigate SHC - spontaneous human conbustion I can offer you some fascinating resources.
Be safe y'all!~

 

[John Reeves]

Andrew, Thanks for the informative reply. Very helpful

Now I have started throwing my oily paper towels on the shop floor, they do dry out. So the next day I should put them in the trash but I found that I can re-use the old paper towel for wiping or rubbing after it is dry. I feel like I am doing a "BLUE TOWEL" commercial or either I am telling all how cheap I am.