Soliciting advice on a workshop expansion.

[mpholway]

I currently have a workshop that I have outgrown mostly due to a large supply of wood. My current shop only has 8 foot ceilings and it make it problematic to store and move long sock and 4x8 panels. I currently have about 1/4 of my existing shop tied up with wood storage and I also have wood racked under my porch and in the garage.

I am planning to expand my shop with 12' walls and include a finishing room. What are some thoughts as to what I should make sure to include?

Some specifics:

What are the minimum dimension recommendations for a finishing room?

The floor will be joists as opposed to a poured slab like my current shop. Do a need it 12" on center or will 16 be sufficient? My heavy equipment (table saw, jointer, planer, lathe) will remain in the main shop which is on a slab.

My dust collection and compressor are currently outside the shop in a protected but not climate controlled shed. They will need to accommodate the addition. It it a OK for them to remain outside?

I do plan to have a "bay door" which will service something akin to a loading dock as the entrance will be the same level as the bed of my pickup to facilitate loading and unloading without lifting. Should I have a rolling overhead garage door or just a double swinging door? I am leaning toward a double swinging door because it will not require the rolling door infrastructure and provide better insulation but could be talked out of it if there is a compelling reason otherwise.

Since I have my big equipment in the shop do I need to run 220 into the addition?

Lots more to come I am sure. Thanks in advance for your input.

PS: Once it is all done I promise to invite everyone over for a shop crawl.

 

[blackhawk]

I would absolutely run 220 volts to the addition.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

I 2nd the 220.

I only have a 60A sub, which might be ok for most, but wish I had gone with larger copper and increased to a minimum of 80A. 100A would have been ideal.

I have a 10' 6" ceiling in my garage, and I have no idea how you can manage with an 8'. That 12' sounds lovely, but hopefully it won't be overkill?

No clue on a finishing area, so I will leave that to others.

Just curious, what sort of dust collector do you have?

 

[chris_goris]

I hear this "complaint" all the time about 8' ceilings and 8 ' plywood... Ive been in my shop 5 years and handled tons of it, no issues. You simply rotate it horizontally, not vertically. What do you do with a 13 foot long board? I cant see heating an additional 8k cu ft of space so I can flip a sheet of plywood end over end, not to mention the added costs both inside and outside the structure.

 

[llucas]

ok to leave compressor and dust unit outside covered
yes on 220v...I recently did a shop expansion and put in a 100amp subpanel...very glad i did as I am already rethinking the wiring layout.
yes on double swinging doors....less air loss, better insulation, and easier manpass access every time you want to go in and out as you can open only one half of the hole
no opinion on the finishing area

 

[Willemjm]

I hear this "complaint" all the time about 8' ceilings and 8 ' plywood... Ive been in my shop 5 years and handled tons of it, no issues. You simply rotate it horizontally, not vertically. What do you do with a 13 foot long board? I cant see heating an additional 8k cu ft of space so I can flip a sheet of plywood end over end, not to mention the added costs both inside and outside the structure.

If you buy wholesale lumber, 500bf minimum orders, you often end up with a whole bunch of 14’ long boards.

I have the same problem, almost 1/2 of my shop is lumber and plywood storage. We often build 96” cabinet boxes, standard cabinet height in most new homes. Some times we do 114” high for the 10’ ceiling height kitchen, where cabinets go to the ceiling. I’m good with ceiling height though in the shop.

It’s my bad though, we have a big conditioned warehouse 3 miles away, have just not gotten around to moving most of my lumber out of the shop. That would be quite the adventure and I guess I have a bunch of lumber accumulated over the years which will probably never be used in my lifetime.

 

[Wilsoncb]

You mentioned putting the compressor and DC outside. You will already have to make a roof over them, so think about expanding the roof area so you can work outside when weather permits. For example, if I’m going to do a bunch of sanding or routing I will roll a table outside and do it there. It keeps the dust out of the shop and out of your lungs. Note, I still wear a mask, but I can tell the difference when I’m outside.

Even if you just extend the roof over your doors so you can open them in the rain and still keep the rain out.

Along those same lines of thinking, look at an exhaust fan with shutters.

 

[mkepke]

Matt - is this for a commercial/semi-commercial shop where you can expect a financial return on the added floor space? E.g. if-I-have-more-floor-space-I-can-produce-paying-work-faster sort of deal?

Otherwise, if this is a hobby shop, it sounds like the best bang-for-your buck might be to find a different place to store your lumber other than in your woodshop, thereby freeing up that existing floor space? Maybe that's adding a new lean-to shed or adding a Conex container in the backyard,...

Or - and I say this with a heavy heart as a bit of a wood-hoarder myself - keep less lumber onhand.

-Mark

 

[mpholway]

Matt - is this for a commercial/semi-commercial shop where you can expect a financial return on the added floor space? E.g. if-I-have-more-floor-space-I-can-produce-paying-work-faster sort of deal?

Otherwise, if this is a hobby shop, it sounds like the best bang-for-your buck might be to find a different place to store your lumber other than in your woodshop, thereby freeing up that existing floor space? Maybe that's adding a new lean-to shed or adding a Conex container in the backyard,...

Or - and I say this with a heavy heart as a bit of a wood-hoarder myself - keep less lumber onhand.

-Mark

Mark - Ouch!

 

[Oka]

To expand the shop the electrical needs to be improved. A 100 amp sub panel or 2-60 Amp subpanels.
If it is your house check and see if you have A200 Amp main, if so cool. If not then you could go the way of 2 sub panels.
Size is your choice. Ceiling height should be 10 ft. Keep in mind when laying out how you are going access and move Material and how will you do the dust collection. That is the important things to 1st think about

 

[hawkscry]

The finishing room was 18ft. x24ft. in my last shop. The 12ft. ceiling is great but you will have to install a much bigger fan system, like, floor to ceiling system.
You have to climatize your compressor to be the same temp. as your space and the material you are spraying. Otherwise you run the risk of blush, orange peal or fish eyes. The air lines should be piped in with black iron pipe. It sweats a lot less than copper. If you have to keep the compressor outside, install an air dryer in the booth as far away from the spraying as possible, it is electric.
Just a note, 16 on center is fine if you put down Avantec sub floor(3/4 inch) with 4x8 sheets of plywood, also 3/4 inch. It will give you all the strength you need. I have that same thing in my entire shop. It supports all my heavy machinery
I hope this helps.

 

[Graywolf]

Yes, Matt this is a large rabbit hole of things to think about. With your compressor out side and unfortunately even if it was inside, when it compresses air it also compresses the moisture in it. You will need to install an air dryer and filter to keep contamination from your air lines. This will help prevent any blushing or fish eye issues. Most commercial shops I’ve worked in used this type of set up. This is another reason I have switched over to using turbine systems. Personally I like having both capacities.
I noticed your main complaint was head space, lumber storage, and finish area. So my questions are; is your shop attached or detached from your home? have you checked your local codes for what you are wanting to do? Have you checked how having a finish room will affect your homeowners insurance? Have you checked your electrical capacity, ie will you need to install a larger or a secondary power service?
the reason I ask these questions is they all have an impact on what you can and want to do.
For example; if your current shop is attached to your home and you want to add on to it and have it be conditioned air you may be able have larger footage, but you may not be able to add the finish room for fire safety and insurance costs. You have to remember if you do anything under the radar and it is discovered later you insurance can drop you and a local municipality can condemn you property.
if your shop is detached then you will limited on footage in that you cannot build or add on to a secondary structure, with conditioned air larger than you current residence on that property.
I only mention these as things to consider as you set out planning your expansion. Your mileage may vary depending on your county but for the most part these are state wide considerations.
good luck on this adventure

 

[Rwe2156]

I disagree on 220. You can always add a circuit later. My entire shop is surface mounted conduit. I did that at the recommendation of my electrician and I’m glad I did it. I’ve altered/added circuits a few times. If I buy something that needs a dedicated circuit I just do a new run.

You didn’t mention your current electric service. About 6 years ago I had a second 200A service put in my shop, mainly b/c the feed from my house would not support central air. But for over 20 years I ran my shop off a 60A subpanel. Several 3 HP machines and a 5HP compressor. Never popped a breaker once.

Personally I would spend the extra money and go with 12” centers. Definitely blocking or criss braces, pier supports. You never know, you might want to move a machine in there.

The bottom line is it’s your shop and your money. I can see where 8 foot ceilings would be a pain. I say build the biggest addition you can afford. I don’t have a spray room, but I’ve put up a temporary 12x12 booth with a rack for cabinet doors and it was plenty big enough.

But my burning question is why so much lumber? Do you have a business or is there something you need to unburden yourself about?

 

[tvrgeek]

Look up the code on the floor. Then make it bigger as code is MINIMUM. It will need to be specified in the permit. Size depends on span.
220 for sure as it is easy to run and you don't need to permit it again later.
Bringing the DC in is smart and if it is outside, you are just pumping all your cool/warm air outside. Compressors get water in them and it can freeze around here. I would bring it in.
I like the double doors as they will seal better and not take up overhead space, But to make any future changes easy, frame it in to a standard garage door size.
Put a beam in the overhead for a electric hoist above where you might unload something. Only used mine a few times, but invaluable when you do need it. I have the 800 Lb Harbor Freight.
I keep my wood inside so it is climatized. A shed won't work for that.
I have 9 foot ceilings. Fine. I wish I had 12 only because I also have my hobby Triumph and a lift would have been nice.
Have you considered a loft for storage? I keep all my paints and about 3/4 of my wood in the upstairs. Still within the HVAC zone.
I am on a slab. I wish I had a crawl space to run the dust collector ducts and machine power.
Lights. Lots of lights. Gobs of lights. White paint.
Are you planning on a laminar flow finishing booth? Horizontal or vertical flow? Hard plumb compressor lines? Lights on the sides.

One can get fancy with compressor dryers ( $$$) but a lot of money and only worth it for production painting. Just plain separators and desiccant cans are more appropriate for a small shop.

 

[Wilsoncb]

One can get fancy with compressor dryers ( $$$) but a lot of money and only worth it for production painting. Just plain separators and desiccant cans are more appropriate for a small shop.

If you permanently plumb the compressed with black pipe, it can be done in such a way that it keeps it cool and dry. Like a 10 foot run at an incline with a drain valve at the lowest point.

 

[sandfarm]

I built my shop about 12 years ago with floor joists on 16" centered but each joist is only 10' long.
My heaviest machine is a 16" jointer weighing in at 2000 lbs. Floor is 3/4" t & g plywood sub floor and 3/4" t & g 1 x 6 flooring. This floor doesn't give at all and doesn't even vibrate.
Follow Scott's advice and check building codes.

 

[mpholway]

Wow - some great feedback.

For clarification, my current shop is free standing and about 100 yards downhill from my house.

The addition I am anticipating will add 720 square feet to my 864 square foot shop so the total footprint will not be an issue per the size of the house. I have tacit approval from the HOA and it seems that so far I am in compliance with Moore county zoning requirements.

The compressor and dust collection have both been outside the shop for 18 years with out an issue and the compressor has a condensation filter already build in the air line.

Cold vs warm air exchange is an issue in extreme cold and heat but for me it has been a acceptable trade off with respect to noise mitigation.

Definitely rethinking the 12 foot walls and think that at least one 220 would be a good plan in case I decide to actually move some equipment out there.

A loft makes a lot of sense and in fact I considered converting the overhead of the current space to a loft but it was untenable. I am also going to look at what it would take to add a loft.

 

[chris_goris]

A loft makes a lot of sense and in fact I considered converting the overhead of the current space to a loft but it was untenable. I am also going to look at what it would take to add a loft.

My shop has a full, 12' wide x 72' long walkup attic space (inside stairs and gable end door) for lumber storage. I had the trusses designed to be clear span (30 foot) load bearing trusses with a 6/12 pitch on 16" centers. I literally have TONS of lumber up there.

 

[mpholway]

Hello all,

I just had the architect in to review my shop plans. Plans that have been significantly impacted by comments that you all have shared. For that I thank you all.

One suggestion that he made when assessing the project was that I should replace my 4' florescent tubes with LED lighting in my shop. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions regarding the best way to do this?

Thanks in advance

 

[blackhawk]

I just did this with some 8 foot high output fluorescents that I had. The LED bulbs that I bought run straight off 120 volts, so I just had to remove the ballasts and reconnect the wires directly to the sockets. For 4 foot lights, you may just be better off buying new ones. We have a Rural King farm supply and their 4 foot LED shop lights are only $20. I have installed at least a dozen of them in my garage and basement.

LEDs typically use at least half the wattage as fluorescents. It will give you a power savings.