Sawstop - stil stopped

[petebucy4638]

Don't think for a minute that there are not problems with other brands of saws. I had a Grizzly contractors saw where the frame was not grounded. I had to fix that one myself. A friend bought a Unisaw that had a badly machined arbor. Another friend bought a Powermatic cabinet saw that had the motor fail within weeks of setting it up.

I'm 64 years old and I have been involved in a few risky sports, hobbies, and jobs over the years - scuba diving, riding motorcycles, sailing, hunting, target shooting, construction, etc.. Knowing the safety rules for all of these activities is beneficial, but accidents still happen. People make mistakes and they get hurt. The last motorcycle that I purchased, a 2015 BMW R1200R, was selected in no small part because of some of the safety features - traction control, ABS braking, and it's fantastically forgiving handling.

The Sawstop saw pretty much falls into the same category as the R1200R. Neither the R1200R nor the Sawstop saw require you to give up any performance to achieve a safer product. Both are top-of-the-line machines that integrate their safety features in a way that is seamless. In neither case do these safety features detract from using these machines.

I first started using table saws when I was in middle school. Thankfully, I still have all of my fingers and other than a couple of benign kick-backs, I have had no issues with any table saw. But that does not make me immune to having an accident. When I start teaching my nephew some woodworking skills, I can do so without the fear that he will injure himself on my table saw. And when he gets ready to buy his first table saw, I'll just pay the difference and make certain that he has a Sawstop saw too.

About two weeks after buying the BMW R1200R a big dog walked out in the road in front of me. He wasn't being aggressive, but he was blocking the road to the point where I had no hope of maneuvering around him. I locked up the integrated front/rear brakes through the front brake lever and let the ABS go to work. I stopped just three feet before I would have hit the dog. If I had been on my Harley, there is no way that I could have stopped in time to avoid crashing into the dog, to his detriment as well as mine. If you can make life safer with some technology, then I'm all for it.

The next thing that I want is a car that will automatically brake if it senses that I am closing too fast on the vehicle in front of me. And as a motorcycle rider, I think that every car should have that technology.

Klingspor is delivering my new saw tomorrow. I have a few projects backed up and having a table saw will make them go a lot faster.

Pete

I have a solution to your problem. Study the safety rules of operating a table saw. Then purchase a cabinet saw from Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly.

 

[sawman101]

I too love a happy ending! I learned a long time ago that most companies will have a problem suddenly arise in the equipment they sell, due to a component purchased from a supplier, that failed. I have a 2004 Chevy Colorado Z71, that might quit running, ie: engine shutdown while passing an 18 wheeler, and I was also pulling a trailer with a tractor on it. After sitting on the side of the road, anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, it would start back up and run with no problem for several weeks. Had it in several Chevy dealerships, but the problem remained. Finally fooled with it myself and replaced a fuse that was labeled crank and run. No problems ever again. Of course it was frustrating that Chevy was unable to assist me on my $29,000 pickup. However I'm happy and never got upset with those I delt with. In other words, STUFF HAPPENS, so don't it ruin your day, week, or life.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

You're an electrical engineer and it's a little surprising that you're not at least slightly sympathetic to SawStop and this "engineering" problem with a batch of about 100 saws. What's changed about the saw components that we haven't seen before?

It's a new problem whose cause is unknown but it may be related to some of the components (bearings) in the saw arbor technology and the SS engineers are trying to figure out the what and why of it. Electromagnetically induced fields triggering the no-start mode by sensing moisture presence even though there isn't any moisture?

I'd cut a break for all parties in this unusual set of circumstances.

Let's take your point at face value, it is about 100 saws, a small percentage of all the saws they sell.

I hope all 100 of these people didn't have to go through this same process. I wonder how this will pan out for the next 5 people with the same issue. Once they figured out that it was some crazy fluke on their end, a commendable course of action would have been to tell their customer that this is not what should be expected of their products and they should make it right.

Their engineers get paid to use their time to diagnose the issue. The lucky customer does not get paid to diagnose the issue, he doesn't get to use the brand new saw he paid for while the problem gets diagnosed, he gets the privilege of going through the setup procedure twice, the joy of disassembly, and dealing with shipping would have been a huge hassle if Klingspor didn't take care of that.

 

[petebucy4638]

I don't know how Sawstop is going to handle this issue with other customers. If it is the arbor bearings, then I suspect that they are either going to arrange for a tech to come to the customers home or they will have the saw shipped back to them. In my case, I was fortunate that I bought the saw from Klingspor and they are making all arrangements for shipping - picking up the old saw at my home and delivering the replacement saw. I can't say how this would have worked out if the saw had been purchased online. I suspect that it would have made returning the old saw more difficult, at the very least.

I think that it would be advantageous to both the customer and to Sawstop if they had access to competent service techs around the the country who could make on-site repairs to their equipment. A lot of home appliance manufacturers contract with local appliance repair companies to perform their warranty service. I don't think that even Maytag subcontracts their repairs. One of the big advantages of buying from Sears, at least in the past, was that they had a pretty good in-house repair network. I don't know if they still do their own warranty repairs or not.

Pete

Let's take your point at face value, it is about 100 saws, a small percentage of all the saws they sell.

I hope all 100 of these people didn't have to go through this same process. I wonder how this will pan out for the next 5 people with the same issue. Once they figured out that it was some crazy fluke on their end, a commendable course of action would have been to tell their customer that this is not what should be expected of their products and they should make it right.

Their engineers get paid to use their time to diagnose the issue. The lucky customer does not get paid to diagnose the issue, he doesn't get to use the brand new saw he paid for while the problem gets diagnosed, he gets the privilege of going through the setup procedure twice, the joy of disassembly, and dealing with shipping would have been a huge hassle if Klingspor didn't take care of that.

 

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Jeff
You're an electrical engineer and it's a little surprising that you're not at least slightly sympathetic to SawStop and this "engineering" problem with a batch of about 100 saws.

The customers shouldn't have to be the field technicians too. Not on a brand new piece of equipment at least. Just my opinion.

Agreed. My statement was directed at Jeremy (the electrical engineer and a potential SS customer as well), not the OP customer.

 

[chris_goris]

Originally Posted by Jeff
You're an electrical engineer and it's a little surprising that you're not at least slightly sympathetic to SawStop and this "engineering" problem with a batch of about 100 saws.



Agreed. My statement was directed at Jeremy (the electrical engineer and a potential SS customer as well), not the OP customer.

As Mechanical engineer myself, I can almost wager this was an accounting problem. Technically, a purchasing issue relating to an inferior , CHEAPER bearing that a purchasing agent was able to source somewhere else. Probably saved the company 4 cents per unit too!!!. This is how this works my friends!.

 

[junquecol]

If Saw Stop says it's the bearings, could be from a different supplier, that uses a grease that doesn't work with SS technology. I could be right, but most likely am wrong.

 

[Willemjm]

I doubt that the issue was a bearing. Other than changing the type of bearing seal from a 2RS, to a ZZ, or a 2RU, etc., etc, there is nothing that will be different. Also if there was an issue with change in bearing manufacturer or type interfering with the signal received from the blade, it would have been a problem from the start. The saw would not have run initially.

I don't see how a bearing could interfere with a 200kHz pulsed electrical signal which is received by a detector through a capacitive coupling.

My guess is they either have an issue which develops in their microprocessor, or the receiver. Would be interesting to know what actually went wrong.

Those things can be tricky. Dremel use to make a nice scroll saw, but they all suffered the same issue on the microprocessor board, where a transistor would lose connection due to the saw vibration after some hours of use. They eventually discontinued the saw. I have two saws, had to repair both myself.