Rubbing out water borne laquer

[terry1166]

I'm nearly finished with an entertainment center that has been a work in progress for about 3 months. The finish schedule so far has been a coat of boiled linseed oil cut 50% with mineral spirits. Let dry for a week then a 2# coat of seal coat. This was followed by 4 coats (sprayed) of ML Campbell Agualente water borne satin lacquer. I'm waiting for the lacquer finish to harden but then want to rub out the finish to a satin gloss. My thoughts are to wet sand with 1200 grit wet/dry paper on a sanding block to flatten the finish and then wet sand (soapy water for a lubricant) with an Abralon 2000 grit disk on a random orbit sander to complete the rub out. Has anyone had any experience with the Abralon products? If so, would you recommend using Abralon in a lower grit (say 1200) instead of the 1200 wet/dry paper? Is my thinking on this all wrong. Any suggestions based on experience with the Mirka Abralon product would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, ML Campbell tech support suggested waiting 48 hours minimum prior to rubbing out but I will probably wait at least a week.

Terry

 

[Howard Acheson]

Number one, you don't want to use water as your lubricant. Water will damage a waterborne finish. Use mineral oil or mineral spirits.

You should start with 400 grit W&D, go up to 600 grit and finish at 1200 grit always sanding by hand and sanding in the direction of the grain. 1200 grit will give you a satin finish.

Be careful, four coats is a little skimpy if you are going to rub it out. It will be easy to sand through if you are not careful. I never use power sanders to rub out just for that reason.

You should also contact Campbell and get their recommendations for rubbing out their product.

 

[Phil S]

By the way, ML Campbell tech support suggested waiting 48 hours minimum prior to rubbing out but I will probably wait at least a week.

Terry[/QUOTE]

I think you are wise to wait one week, Target Coatings suggest waiting 150 hours before rubbing out their water borne lacquer

 

[terry1166]

Thanks for the advice guys. I really appriciate your input. I was just looking at Jeff Jewitts web site and he mentions that satin finishes do not lend themselves to rubbing out. I know that you cannot rub a satin finish material to a gloss but the article he wrote on rubbing finishes infers that one might not get satisfactory results by rubbing a satin finish material. I got a pretty smooth finish off the gun. I may just try a final pass with 4/0 steel wool and paste wax and buff with a Surbuff pad on my orbital sander. I've finished small projects like this before and they ended up pretty slick. I assume that if I don't like the results I can remove the wax with mineral spirits and if necessary spray additional finish coats but I've never done that before. Any problems with removing the paste wax (Johnsons)?

I certainly have little to no experience using sprayed water borne lacquer. I must confess to being confused as to why a finish that meets or exceeds all KCMA requirements for resistance to chemicals, water, etc. would be harmed by rubbing with a soapy water solution. Can someone explain this to me?

Finally the question of the day....I it was your cherry cabinet top and it was finished with a satin water borne lacquer, would you be inclined to rub out the finish?

Thanks again for your help. When I know everything there is to know, I 'll quit asking questions. I wonder how long that will take?

Terry

 

[Robb Parker]

Terry- The problem with rubbing a satin finish is not the smoothness of the finish but the resulting sheen. You'll probably end up with a semi-gloss or better sheen rubbing a satin (and somewhat inconsistant). Satin finishes are mixed with sterates in the finish chemically. They are intended to be an off the gun finish. Meaning the final finish is determined by the last coat straight off the gun. Your best bet is to sand nibs with 320 or 400 grit and respraying. You must watch mil thickness as most modern finishes have a maximum thickness both sprayed wet and final dry thickness. Although I use MLC products I don't use Agualente, so less versed, but I have sprayed. I'll stick to my solvent based.

 

[sazdaman]

Terry Howard is correct. Don't start with such a high grain paper. 400-600 to start to level it. Also, like he said 4 coats will be very easy to wear through. Depending on how smooth (glass) you want it, is how far you sand up to. If you want glass, then 2000. Also, DO NOT use an electric sander, you will heat up the lacquer to much and it will melt and gum up, only by hand.

Good luck...

 

[terry1166]

Thanks again for the additional feedback. I performed a thorough scuff sanding of the existing finish tonight and shot one more coat. After drying I could only find 6 to 8 dust nibs on the 22" x 74" tops final coat. Other than that the final coat finish is very flat and smooth. Any advice on how to get rid of the few dust nibs I have? Can I use Behlen 4/0 steel wool with paste wax or Wool Lube as a lubricant and do a very light "rub" of the entire top without messing up the finish.

Thanks again for your help and advice.

Terry

 

[sazdaman]

You could use a block with 1500-2000 grit wet. Water is fine as a lubricant in this situation. Don't push hard, get it to start dragging. Then buff using some fine grit compound and the dull spots where you sanded will go away.

 

[Howard Acheson]

Dust nibs are easily removed with the kraft brown paper used in paper grocery bags. Cut off a piece and sort of crumble it an rub it against itself until is softens up a bit. Rub your top with the paper and the nibs will be gone. Use light pressure and you won't damage the surface. There is no need for any lubricant. And, I recommend that you not use any wax. It will just create a continuing maintenance problem.