Repairing broken door???

[russellellis]

How would you repair this? Its looks worse than it is, and could be covered up again with what the previous owners used, doorknob reinforcer, but id like to repair before it gets worse. Since this side is completely broken, its causing some flex in the door here.
Ive thought about routering out the face of both sides, leaving a tenon on top and bottom of what used to be the original lock motise, and then making a new piece to slip in and glue it all up. but not sure how much strength that would actually be.
Any suggestions? Its going to be painted inside and out so im not worried about the grain difference.

 

[FredP]

it could be fixed with a dead man as you describe but if it were me I would get a new door.

 

[russellellis]

Unfortunately getting a new door is completely out of the question. The entire front door, with stain glass sidelites would have to be replaced as well and being in a historic area, it would have to be approved by their committee and that ends up being a long drawn out very expensive door. so yeah, this door is sticking around.
thanks for the confirmation that a new section would work, fred. have you ever done this repair before? any suggestions on how long to make the tenons? longer seems stronger, but is it that much more?

 

[FredP]

longer tenons will help. also mortise it all the way back to the rear of the bores. what I have done in the past is to cut out all the bad and instead of making the tenon on the repair piece route out a deadman on both faces of the door. IE,,, the tenon will be the original stile and the patch would be longer. I would go at least 6" above and below the blown out area. more would be better. the longer you go with the outside pieces the stronger the fix will be. first i would cut out the bad. then fill it in with a block that fits. when that piece is glued and solid then make a template to clamp on the door and route out both sides a little further back than the plug and longer. then cut two pieces to fit those places and glue them in. you can use some screws if you want but be sure to not put them where your going to be drilling and chiseling to make the new lock mortices. DAMHIKT.... when you done with that then bondo all the places that need filling and sand the door flat. by filling all your cut lines you get a better looking patch after painting. If your carefull you wont ever see the patch. if you need to contact me for more info just PM me and I'll send you a phone number.

 

[russellellis]

fred if i understand correctly youre saying to use three pieces of new stock? i was thinking more of this. just using one new piece of 8/4 oak and planing it down, then cutting some mortises/grooves, to glue up to the tenons i router on the original door stile. making it large enough to put in the new locks/deadbolt as well as with longer cheeks and all. this is a crude little drawing.

 

[FredP]

same principal exept I find it easier to do in three peices since the outsides are going to be long. by doing it in three pieces your tenons dont have to be perfect and you dont force too much glue out when slipping it in the door. I use epoxy on the plug [center piece] because it sets up in 5 min and tightbond for the outside pieces.by routing the outside mortices after plugging you get a good glue joint on all surfaces. also when I rout out for the outside pieces I route back beyond the plug to get an overlaping part there as well. hope this makes sense.:gar-La;

 

[Sandy Rose]

Call "Ask This Old House" and see if they will fix it!!!!!!:gar-La;

 

[FredP]

I have done this several times and never had a failure. Once someone kicked the door in after the fix and the jamb gave up before the fix did.:gar-Bi the more overlap you do the stronger it will be. I did this once on a stain grade door and had to route the full length on the inside stile [stained side] and after it was restained you couldnt see the fix. of coarse it cost the guy more than a new door but the customer is always right!:icon_thum not always smart but always right! :rotflm: In you situation I fully understand. dealing with the histerical society can exiting!

 

[russellellis]

ah ok gotcha. that makes sense and might be a little easier as well. i was thinking the same thing but with one piece. if you notice in the first pic, there is a glass pane right behind doorknob area. so i was planning on just cutting out the bad area all the way to the glass repairing the entire stile. as if there was a complete 9" piece missing there.

 

[FredP]

ah ok gotcha. that makes sense and might be a little easier as well. i was thinking the same thing but with one piece. if you notice in the first pic, there is a glass pane right behind doorknob area. so i was planning on just cutting out the bad area all the way to the glass repairing the entire stile. as if there was a complete 9" piece missing there.

only rout to the glass on the outside pieces. the inside plug only goes to the back side of the holes. that way there is support on 3 sides instead of only top and bottom.

 

[Gotcha6]

Any chance you could replace the entire rail? Some lumber yards that have shops could make you one to profile if you could get the old one out. Otherwise, I'd try a long half lap and some TBIII rather than a tenon if you're just going to paint it.

 

[CrealBilly]

How would I fix that? If there is structural damage - I would stabilize it by gluing back what I could. Then I would Bondo it, sand it flat and smooth then take some blendal powders and a artist brush and paint the grain back in. Then I would shoot the area with a little bit of toner and a few clear topcoats. You would never know it was there by the time I got done with it. Estimated time to repair and blend after you stripped it down to barewood and put your first coats of sealer on, about an hour.

 

[russellellis]

Dennis, that would be the absolutely best way i agree, but.........if you can find those mysterious sawmills/lumber yards near me, id take that route. on a seperate thread, i praised the fact that i finally found wood locally. and by locally i mean, i drove over an hour to pick it out.
Jeff, if you were my neighbor, id take you up on that. haha. you were offering right? haha, but seriously, i guess since its being painted, it doesnt matter what the fix is, no worries about the grain at all.
and the kicker is.....i have to have it done by sunday. woooo weekend time!!

 

[Gotcha6]

Is this door using an old double bored mortise lock? If so, there's no point in infilling the entire door to re - mortise. Why not plane an overlay to the thickness of the rail on each side of the mortise hole (~1/2") and rout out the rail above & below the mortise to that thickness. You could then glue the new pieces in on each side and re bore the lock holes through the thinner wood.

 

[russellellis]

No its an even older single bored mortise lock. 3/4x5 inch mortise for the old lockset, but since those are not very secure for exterior doors, it has been drilled out for the now standard - deadbolt/doorknob set up. which is that way i will reset the new fix. what im gonna try is a lot like what Fred has suggested. with a slight difference. to the backside of the lockset is a 36" pane, (this door has 9 seperate panes which im pricing out for insulated replacements but that will come later but still...). so im going to take out about 9-10" of the style. and even more on the backside which is the pane frame because it has some external cracking. so i will replace the 9-10" with a new blank. then cut out the 12+ inches on the backside of the stile where the pane is and replace that with a new blank about 3/8x2x12 to repair that external cracking so when i do put in the insulated glass it will be a clean reveal. and......then rout out recesses on both sides of the stile and glue in a new "skin".
whew
sounds like a lot of work, but less blood and bending over and/or backwards for the committe here.
and less work than replacing the entire door/sidelights/transom

 

[LeftyTom]

Unfortunately getting a new door is completely out of the question. The entire front door, with stain glass sidelites would have to be replaced as well and being in a historic area, it would have to be approved by their committee and that ends up being a long drawn out very expensive door. so yeah, this door is sticking around.

I remember this tidbit from our visit to Charleston. Good luck with the renov...er, refab.

 

[Gotcha6]

Too bad that same 'committee' that watches to be sure you paint everything the right color isn't into neighborhood watches to prevent breakins from happening. Then you wouldn't be replacing/repairing the door at all.:tinysmile_tongue_t: Historic properties are a pain sometimes, but probably worth it to live in if you enjoy it. Post us some pics of the fix. We gotta know how it looks.

 

[russellellis]

Dennis, you hit the nail on the head there. The saddest part is that the area was added to the register in 1978, and from what i've heard since moving here that this area really ran into bad times and crime in the early 80s. So even though it had a committee and was registered, many houses became direlect and run down, or like mine, was graced with security bars on all windows and doors. None of the chairs live in the area. Some are not even in Kanawha county.

but anyway.....today went ok with the door. i should hopefully if nothing goes wrong tomorrow, get the door done. today, i cut out the entire bad spot on the rail from front to back. then planed down oak and epoxied it in. once that was dry i used to straight edges clamped on and routered out a 5/16" deep recess on one side. thats where i stopped and finished building the bath vanity ive been working on this week.