Paring Chisels

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Larry Rose

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Larry Rose
Who makes good paring chisels? I've got a set of Robert Sorbys and they will not hold an edge at all. After a few paring cuts (no mallet) the edge actually curls over :BangHead:. They are next to useless. My old Marples bevel chisels were a lot cheaper and are far better. Any ideas?
 

Larry Rose

New User
Larry Rose
How much money you got? I'm happy to spend it for ya!

Barr seems to be top notch. Woodcraft now carries them, at least in their catalog. http://www.barrtools.com/

I hear a lot of great things about Blue Spruce tools http://bluesprucetoolworks.com/index.htm

I'm assuming your bevel is not too shallow and you didn't burn the steel.

Jim
You're right , you can help spend my money. I checked out the urls and they look good. No, I haven't reground the bevels just honed a micro bevel on them. Thanks for the info.
 

MikeL

Michael
Corporate Member
I had never seen the Barr stuff until this link, but I too have heard very good things about the Blue Spruce tools (I believe that our own Willard Anderson was the source). Let us know what you end up going with!
 

DavidF

New User
David
The biggest problem finding a paring chisel is getting one that has a back that is flat for a large distance. For paring through mortises I like to use a guide block and if the back of the chisel isn't flat it throws the mortise off or the tip refuses to cut as the guide block levers it off the surface being pared. I was going to get the Sorby, but now having second thoughts based on your comments. Could you have a bad one? not hardened correctly? Sorby has such a good name I would be surprised if they didn't help out, they are British after all, and therefore, all around good chaps......:rotflm:
 

froglips

New User
Jim Campbell
In the ongoing exploration of the cobwebbed recesess of whats left of my mind, I did read an article on this very topic.

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Why+Some+New+Tools+Have+Poor+Edge+Life.aspx

Don't know your patience level in looking at fixing it or possible return/exchange.

I tend to buy the $1 to $2 crap chisel lots off ebay and hope I find a winner in the box. If not, I practice heat treating and edge ruining.

Not to knock Sorby, but I have noticed a hit or miss trend on their quality. When its good, its great. Otherwise, its a nice paperweight or dangerous door stop.

Jim
 

cpowell

New User
Chuck
I bought a set of AI chisels from Tools for Working wood... http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...roduct_Code=IL-100-10.XX&Category_Code=TBBCND

IL-100-10XX_big.gif


I was using them for DTs and had problems for a while. I started increasing the sec bevel angle each time I went to the stones. After a few trials they stopped folding. I believe they were at 25 degrees initially and I ended up somewhere between 25 and 30.

I can chop or pare without problems now. The edges hold up well and they last a good while before they need to be touched up. They're keepers.



Chuck
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
I have my "paring" chisels (22 - 25 degree bevel) and my "chopping" chisels (30-35 degree bevel). I don't hit the 22 degree bevels with a mallet.

Even with my cheap chisels, I have not had a problem with the edge folding. Usually it is chipping out. When one chips out, I increase the bevel on that one until it stops. I have a Sorby mortise chisel that I had to increase the bevel to almost 40 degrees to stop the chipping.

If it is folding, I would suspect that the temper is gone, and you will have to take it back some to get back to tempered metal.

As I am not the best at a powered grinding wheel, I hand sharpen mine so I do not burn out the temper.

JMTCW

Go
 

Larry Rose

New User
Larry Rose
I've had the too long for a refund or trade. They have never been on a grinding wheel and never had a mallet used on them so it must be a lack of temper in the steel. How do you go about tempering them. They are worthless now so they cann't be hurt.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
I've had the too long for a refund or trade. They have never been on a grinding wheel and never had a mallet used on them so it must be a lack of temper in the steel. How do you go about tempering them. They are worthless now so they cann't be hurt.

I would grind back the bevel and re-hone the edge before you do anything else to get to the good steel that's there. Sorby makes good stuff but I imagine the surface has been messed up by the finishing process. If you get a 60 grit blue (friable) grinding wheel and dress the edge to a slight crown, you can safely re-grind the bevel without burning the steel. Norton makes the best but I have a generic blue stone from here and it works fine:
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/...emium_Grain_Blue_AO_Bench_Grinding_Wheels_CGW_
A multi point diamond wheel dresser is needed to cleanup and crown the edge. By having a crowned stone edge you only are touching a small part of the steel and not heating up the whole face...just keep your fingers up close to the edge and your pain receptors will let you know when it's heating up. You only need to take ~1/32in off of them to get to the hard steel.

Check out Joel Moskovitz's (Tools for Working Wood) article in FWW May-June 2009 about doing this. I practiced this on a $5 HF chisel set and they are really good chisels now.
 

froglips

New User
Jim Campbell
Well, tempering can be loads of fun.....

Here is Froglips Official Take on All He Might Think About This:

Basic steps are to heat the tool up to a orange/read heat, then quickly quench in oil or water. This hardens the metal. Aka, you get all the atoms really jumping around then freeze them in place. When you quench, be sure to swirl the tool around. Otherwise an air gap exists between the tool and the quench bath negating the desired effect.

Best cheap heating luck I've had is with two mapp gas torches. An Oxy-Acetylene rig would be even better. You can hold the tool over the heat, or if you have some fire bricks, make a little mini-oven.

Now you "should" have metal so hard a file won't cut it.

Then you want to temper the metal to a compromise hardness. Something you can sharpen but won't fold or crumble when you look at it sideways :)

The idea is to heat the tool so it brings out a straw or yellow color. This is a surface oxidation. If you kept going, the yellow would turn blue and you'd have a soft tool.

I'd suggest indirect heating. Place the tool on a flat piece of cast iron, aka skillet. Then heat the skillet. Its a bit slower, but I find it a more controlled technique. I'd also suggest laying the chisel so the face is up. You want to see that side turn yellow. If its flat face down on the heat, by the time you see straw on the top, its probably too late.

If you want to free hand it, a tip is start back from the edge, maybe 1 or 2 inches, so the heat runs up the chisel to the end. Of course, don't heat the nice wood handle :p

Then on to heat treating, which is tough to do with a handled tool, so I'd say skip it. If you want to, the idea is to subject the metal to a low head for an extended period of time to releave stresses.

There are tons of good books out there on heat treating your own tools. I happen to have/like Tool Making for Woodworkers by Ray Larsen, Make your Own Woodworking tools Mike Burton, and an classic The Recycling, Use & Repair of Tools Alexander Weygers.

Any "real" tool makers or metal worker should and probably would scoff at this approach. You can't control temps or oxygen like they can. But, I think the results are good enough to save what is otherwise a good doorstop or rocking table leg wedge.

Jim
 

AAAndrew

New User
Andrew
I got a 3/4" Sorby paring chisel from Lee Valley for Christmas. The first time I tried paring a 1/4"x1/4" piece of walnut end grain it folded over like a wet kleenex. I sent it back. That is DEFINITELY not supposed to happen. I have a no-name 1/4" paring chisel that holds up ten times better. I have some old Worth bench chisels that pare a 1000 times better. That's just bad steel. I wonder if Sorby having a problem with their quality on paring chisels?

I returned it and paid a bit more for one of their new dovetail saws. They are really nice and cut very quickly!

AAAndrew
 

DavidF

New User
David
A really good post Jim. I would add just one thing; after the oil quench, give the steal a really good polish. That way you can see the colour change much easier. It's tempting to just give it a quick wipe over, but going as far as a nice polish makes the next step much more controllable.
 
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