Need chainsaw advice

[merrill77]

#1 - My father has heard me wish for a larger chainsaw on a few occasions. They recently moved here and he said "I don't want to maintain a saw anymore, since I can just borrow yours now. Here is my saw...keep one and pass the other to your B-I-L." Mine is a Stihl 025 with 16 & 18" bars, ~15 yrs of occasional use, runs perfect. His is a Husqvarna 350 with 16" bar, but manual says up to 20". It is also newer, 5-7yrs old, I think. But I can't start it and he says it has always been hard to start. The slightly larger motor (49 vs 44) only yields an additional 2" of capacity, far short of where I want to be. I assume he offered it thinking of his 20" max vs the 16" I usually have on mine. I'd like to get safely through a 20-24" trunk, which I think equates to a 28" bar an much larger saw. I would not mind keeping my current saw for smaller work. Is there ANY reason to keep the Husqvarna instead of my Stihl?

#2 - I just sharpened one of my chains using a HF sharpener. It cut much faster through an 8" oak limb, but was spitting about 1/2 chips and 1/2 dust. It should be all chips, right? Any advice on what I need to adjust or do differently?

#3 - I'm a bit low on firewood, but today I found a big oak down back in my woods. 20" dia trunk on the small end. Looks like it went down last summer. Unfortunately, cutting it up will be a challenge as most of the trunk is off the ground.



Any advice or strategies on how to approach that?

TIA!
Chris

 

[chris_goris]

I have an 025 Stihl about 20 years old and I wouldnt trade it for the world! Well… maybe the world, but you get my drift1. As for the tree, just start chipping away and see how it goes!.

 

[allisnut]

I have a husky 350, and I find it to have the best ratio of weight to performance of any saw I have used. I run an 18" bar on mine, I don't think I would go to a 20". I'm not sure how to diagnose the hard to start issue. I set the choke on mine, pull it until it fires once, push the choke in, pull it once and it is running. I have found it very easy to flood the only husky I have owned that had a primer bulb. My 350 doesn't have a primer, but I had a 450 that did. I quit using the primer, or used it sparingly.

All that being said, if you are happy with your stihl, keep it. But I do not think the 350 is a bad saw.

As far as the oak tree, start at the top and cut fire wood lengths from the ends of the branches working towards the main trunk. Cut everything you can that is off the ground first to reduce weight. The start working on the limbs that are supporting the trunk, being careful to analyze where to cut to avoid pinching the saw. Usually you can cut about 1/3 of the way down from the top, then cut from the bottom to finish the cut. You also need to pay attention to which way the trunk will fall or roll as you cut each supporting limb. Just keep working away from the top, and the trunk will eventually be on the ground.

Having two saws right now is important, so if you get the first saw stuck you will have another to get stuck besdie it. At least that's how I usually do it. :gar-Bi

 

[allisnut]

I skipped question #2 - I bought a harbor freight sharpener but don't use it. If you really know how to use a good sharpener, you can overcome all of the HF units short comings and get a chain sharpened properly. In the instruction manual for mine, they had the chain on the sharpener backwards for the instructional photos. I have my chains sharpened professionally when they get really beat up and maintain them with good files and a husqvarna filing guide in between.

 

[allisnut]

One last post and I will quit - I grew up with a Jonsered 520SP with an 18" bar. We cut tons of firewood, including oak trees that were over 30" in diameter. You don't have to have a 28" bar to cut a 24" log, but it does make it go a lot faster.

 

[Mike Davis]

The first tree I cut down was a 30 inch Osage orange, I used a 14 inch electric Wen chainsaw. When I saw it laying there on the ground I went and got a Stihl 026 with 18 inch bar.

i had a good friend who is dead now, but he taught me how to sharpen a saw chain. You are right it should be throwing long noodles of wood, no dust. The reason yours throws both is because some teeth are longer than others. A lot of times this happens because you are stronger to either the left or right and apply more pressure to that side of the chain while sharpening. A quick look see at the scribed lines on the teeth will tell you what is wrong.

To remedy the problem I use a locking micrometer, no I don't measure each tooth. I find the shortest tooth, set the micrometer to it, lock it in position and use it as a gage to quickly judge how much to take off all the other teeth to get them even. They don't have to be exact, but you see already what having half of them shorter can do. If all the shorter ones are on one side the saw will drift the the opposite side. I use the gage every third or fourth sharpening or when I notice it is off.

After you get the teeth even it will cut like a new saw.

 

[JimD]

I do not use an electric chain sharpener. I keep a round file with guide in the chainsaw box. I also have the guide and flat files to reduce the height of the teeth but I don't find I need to. It's harder to remove material inappropriately by hand with a file. It takes me less time to sharpen a chain than to change it. I use an old 14 inch bar saw I bought reconditioned. It is only used occasionally but always starts despite me storing fuel in it. If it ever dies, I plan to buy a Stihl.

I've used a big chain saw and I understand it is easier to cut through the trunk from only one side. But big saws are heavy and long chains are harder to maintain too. I have cut 24 inch or a bit more trunks on more than one occasion with my little 14 inch saw. I have to cut from both sides, of course, but with a sharp chain that doesn't take long. The biggest saw I've used was owned by a guy at a church we attended in PA. He heated his house with wood before he got married and needed several cords a year. He had a small Stihl for limbing and a big Stihl for cutting up the trunk. He saw me attacking a big trunk with my little saw and offered his big one. Then he saw me jerking up and down on his Stihl and made me stop. He taught me to just lower the saw through the trunk. With a sharp chain, you should have to hold the saw up, it's weight should be more than enough force to take it through the trunk. When you find yourself pressing down or otherwise trying to help the saw, it is time to shut it down and sharpen (or change) the chain.

Long way of saying that unless you cut multiple cords a year, I don't think you need a bigger saw. Your biggest need may be to learn to sharpen a chain properly. It makes a huge difference. A tree off the ground like you illustrate is nice because it keeps your chain out of the ground. Touching rocks will dull it quicker than anything.

 

[Mike Davis]

Your tree can be dangerous if you don't think about gravity and stored energy in the trunk. I would cut off any limbs that are in the air and not in a bind first. Then take some of that freed wood and block up the trunk to keep it off the ground when cut, it will be much easier to handle that way. Cut underneath first then cut down through the top this will give you some relief from the strain on the bottom and work with the kerf opening rather than closing on the chain/bar, of course if the trunk is supported on both ends the opposite effect will be in play. Always think about which way the wood will move before you make a cut.

 

[merrill77]

Thanks for all the help!

I should clarify: my desire for a larger saw is not related to cutting firewood. If I can get that big trunk onto the ground safely, I am confident I can make it into firewood using my existing saw. I have wanted a larger saw (and a rip chain and Alaskan mill style attachment) for cutting a large trunk like that into usable lumber.

I'll keep my Stihl, since I'm perfectly happy with it and let my dad and B-I-L figure out the starting problem on the Husqvarna.

I'll take a close look at the chain this week with a micrometer and see if I can identify teeth that are higher/lower than the others. I don't feel like it was a left/right problem and the saw was cutting straight....but I was only cutting 6-8" limbs, so it would have to be pretty bad to be noticeable in that short cut.

I have tried touching up the chain using a chain file in the past. I've had a hard time judging how effective that has been...which probably means I was failing The chain I sharpened yesterday had been abused by someone I lent the saw to and was in pretty bad shape. I felt like it was past my ability to sharpen by hand...thus going to the powered option. But maybe that is wrong. I'd like to get better with the file and be able to keep it sharp while I'm working. But first I need to get it cutting really well so I have a good baseline to work from.

As for that big trunk...I'll take off a limb or two next weekend and see where that leaves me. Those limbs may yield more firewood than I can use in the near future, making the trunk just a fun challenge, rather than a serious task.


Thanks again!
Chris

 

[Mike Davis]

Sharpening with a round file doesn't work well without the guide. Get the Stihl or Oregon clip on saw sharpening guide for your saw file. It keeps the file at the correct depth and gives you a visual guide for the angle. Don't file the teeth with a flat file, the flat file is for lowering the depth gauges. You need a guide for that too.

 

[CrealBilly]

I don't use a guide, i find them a hassle to use. But I do lesson my pressure and twist the round file for the last half a dozen strokes or so. this produces a extremely smooth chipper edge and makes the chain scary sharp.

Its easier to keep a chain sharp, by dragging a file through the teeth when its just starts to not cut well, than it is to wait until it gets worse... but 1/2 chips 1/2 dust, is beyond when I would have sharped the chain. You may need to spend some time with a round file getting the chain back in shape and it might be quicker to just get a new chain and keep it sharp from here on out.

Using an electric chainsaw sharpener has a lot to do with dressing the wheel edge correctly. Unless I'm doing a bunch of chains at the same time I find it easier to leave the chain on the saw and sharpen it by hand than to take the chain off, set up the electric sharpener, sharpen the chain, and put it back on the saw.

And oh keep the chain out of the dirt that will kill a chain in a heartbeat.

There are better chains out there than Oregon, husky chains are not to bad Carlton logger pro chains are better. Ace hardware makes up loops with good quality chain. Tell em you want the good stuff. They may or may not ask for your logging license which you need in the state of NC to buy professional and dangerous no anti kickback chain.

 

[Jeff]

Lots of good advice and safety tips.

1. You don't need a long bar to cut through a larger diameter trunk but it makes it easier in one pass. A 16" bar will handle a +/- 32" d log but be careful because the bar nose can kick back and up towards you.

2. Buy a few extra Oregon chains and keep them handy for a quick change when needed in the woods. Do the sharpening after the work is done or have it done at a local shop.

3. Hard starting Husqvarna 350, 5-7 years old: It may have a "decompression" button which helps. Prime the bulb, choke, pull, and "pop". Choke off and crank it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2QSYgTMCu8

Be safe. Chunk out the skyward branches first and use a few pieces for support as Mike suggested. Pick a spot about midway along the trunk and remove a wedge from the top then complete the through cut from the bottom-it will open up as the trunk collapses so there should be no binding.

​

 

[Gofor]

All the advice above is good, especially the tips to get all the teeth the same length, and using a gauge/guide to sharpen with. For a saw that may be a little underpowered, or for large slabs, you may want to consider getting some half-skip or full skip chains. These have less teeth per inch of chain. The advantage is that you can keep the rpm up. This gets the engine into the best efficiency range and keeps the saw and chain cooler, and you have less teeth to resharpen. Using higher octane gas also will keep the engine running cooler.

You will also want some wedges to keep the cut open as you go down the log.

I use the Alaskan Mark III chainsaw mill attachment from Granberg. With it, you lose about 6" of bar length on the max cutting width (i.e. you can cut a 12" wide slab with an 18" bar). Trimming off any protrusions or heavy bark on the sides of the log will also increase the width of good wood you will be able to obtain.

Before you slab, make sure you have some stickers and a sheltered place to stack the slabs for drying. For oak, you want the initial drying to be fairly slow. Pine can dry faster without checking and splitting.

That oak being off the ground is a good way to help keep it until you decide to harvest it. If you cut it into logs and let them lay on the ground, the bessy beetles will have larvae in the sap wood in a very short time. Keeping the logs up off the ground and all the leaves, etc away from underneath will slow them down quite a bit, but you need to keep a check on it for any signs of bug frass under the logs. Once they get started, you need to debark the logs, but this will result in the log starting to split as the outside dries much quicker than the inside.

Hope this helps.

Go

 

[Jeff]

Aren't we talking about firewood and not lumber slabs for woodworking?

 

[CrealBilly]

Aren't we talking about firewood and not lumber slabs for woodworking?

IDK I'm confused which ain't hard for me to do.

 

[Mike Davis]

He said he would like to slab part of the trunk because there is too much there for the amount of firewood he uses.

 

[merrill77]

He said he would like to slab part of the trunk because there is too much there for the amount of firewood he uses.

Correct. Sorry for the confusion - I had multiple questions. In the short term, I need to get my chain properly sharpened to turn most of those limbs into firewood. In the longer term, I'd like to try slabbing a log with a chainsaw mill. If that trunk is white oak, then I'd like to try that soon. If it's red oak, I probably won't bother. So I also need to ID it soon(ish).

 

[SubGuy]

Get this: http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms461r/ or bigger

Take you chains to a place to get sharpened that knows what they are doing.

Buy good full skip chains if you are experienced with a saw, buy half skip if not.

I run FS on a 24" bar on a MS390 and cut 4 to 6 cords a year. I have 4 good chains I keep in circulation and 2 crap chains to cut near dirt or ground. Use only high octane gas as it is better on the motor. Buy only good bar oil and 2-cycle oil (I use husky/echo or stihl brands in both). Have winter grade bar oil for temps under 40F as the normal stuff may not lube your bar well enough in cold condition and your end up with an overheated bar and chain. Overheated bar an chain results in stretched chain and abnormal wear on the bar. This ultimately results in higher chance of throwing a chain, ruining chains and bars and kickback. Stay away from sand. Sand gets in the links and causes sloppiness and abnormal wear. You end up with the same results as an overheated bar. Overheated bars can also cause the spur or gear to seize at the tip of the bar. This is always a bad day. I have had my 390 for about 10 years and have run it pretty hard when I use it.
On the subject of safety, you should have a pair of chaps and a face/head guard. I have had chaps save my leg when I slipped during a cut and the saw landed running on my leg. OSHA and US Forest Service has some good gouge on safety. Most of it is basic and common sense, but it's none the less good stuff.

I have helped a local guy mill up here with a Chainsaw Mill (forget brand) and he was using a 660 and it was enough to slab a 26" Diameter oak with ease.

 

[merrill77]

Sharpening with a round file doesn't work well without the guide. Get the Stihl or Oregon clip on saw sharpening guide for your saw file. It keeps the file at the correct depth and gives you a visual guide for the angle. Don't file the teeth with a flat file, the flat file is for lowering the depth gauges. You need a guide for that too.

I do have one of those and used it once after trying by hand. But again, since I was starting from a chain that probably needed major work, it was hard to tell if I was doing it right.

 

[merrill77]

Lots of good advice and safety tips.

1. You don't need a long bar to cut through a larger diameter trunk but it makes it easier in one pass. A 16" bar will handle a +/- 32" d log but be careful because the bar nose can kick back and up towards you.

2. Buy a few extra Oregon chains and keep them handy for a quick change when needed in the woods. Do the sharpening after the work is done or have it done at a local shop.

3. Hard starting Husqvarna 350, 5-7 years old: It may have a "decompression" button which helps. Prime the bulb, choke, pull, and "pop". Choke off and crank it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2QSYgTMCu8

Be safe. Chunk out the skyward branches first and use a few pieces for support as Mike suggested. Pick a spot about midway along the trunk and remove a wedge from the top then complete the through cut from the bottom-it will open up as the trunk collapses so there should be no binding.

​

Yeah, that's the saw - thanks for the link!. Yesterday evening my wife handed me the manual for the saw, which I assumed had not been passed on to us. With that in hand and the video in mind, I'll try to get it started again. I don't know how they can say "starting the saw is a simple process" with a straight face...my Stihl has about 1/4 as many steps. Perhaps when my dad said it was hard to start, he meant it was hard to remember all the steps

Thanks for the graphic, too - the visual helps. When making the final cut up from the bottom, it seems like that the log is going to drop and bury the blade in the ground. Is that not an issue on a log of this size because the entire bar will easily fit in the cut with room to spare before the log drops? Also, is there a rule-of-thumb for how deep the V on top should be? The drawing shows about 1/3.

Also - cutting up from the bottom with a bar that is shorter than the diameter of the log means the tip of the bar will be cutting. I was told that is a safety no-no because that's how kickback happens so I've always been careful to avoid that (the physics of 'why' it kicks back are obvious enough). What is the technique for dealing with that? Is it different when cutting from bottom vs cutting from top because it will be kicking back and down instead of back and up?

Sorry, I guess I'm turning this into Chainsaw 101 class. Probably exactly I need