How does a young guy afford this hobby? Or even get interested in it?

[DaveD]

I started woodworking about 50 years ago when I was 21. Built a whole set of kitchen cabinets with a basic Craftsman table saw, drill press and router. A el cheapo Craftsman sander, a couple of clamps, cheap set of HSS router bits rounded out my 'woodworking' tool set. Evan at 21 I was able to afford these tools on my very meager 'disposable income' kitty.

Fast forward 50 years.....

I'm in The local Woodcraft store the other day and all of a sudden it hit me...there was no way my 35 year old son (single, decent job, modest home with reasonable mortgage) could reasonably afford to buy any of the stationary power tools much less even consider the Festool line that was in the store. Never mind that they really didn't have any Delta/Rockwell or Powermatic stationary tools. Even look at the little router tables. By the time you added the table, router lift, and fence you were probably close to a $600 bill not including the router.

Woodworkers Supply and to a lesser extent Klingspor are the same way but at least Klingspor does have a reasonable selection of hand power tools.

My conclusion is these places cater to empty nesters that have a decent horde of disposable income. With the death of 99% of the shop classes in our public schools I see very few teenagers that have ever even touched a real power tool or build anything out of wood. Even if their mom/dad are into woodworking their kids still aren't interested. Makes me think I should buy stock in IKEA (ugh).

I see see the woodworking hobby going the way of the dodo bird in the next 30 years once our generation is no longer around.

So anybody else feel the same way?
Is there something I'm not seeing?

Before someone mentions that the younger generation can always look to places like Craigslist for used tools, I'll offer, first they have to be smart enough to even know about this hobby and what its 'tool set' might consist of.

 

[Mike Davis]

I'm working on something that will revolutionize the youth market in wood working.
The home wood working video game.

Virtual tools cost far less because they are just 1s and 0s,
They are far more interesting due to color change technology and digital morphing.
No longer do you have to put away one tool to get another, just morph it into the next tool then the next...
Compliments on design or execution generate more board feet of material and published photos of projects produce bonus tools.

Before you know it wood working will be as common as 8 track.. uh VHS... well, uh saw dust.

Oh, shoot! what was I saying?

 

[nn4jw]

I started out collecting my own tools just about as long ago as you did and as young. I had a Skilsaw, Craftsman 1/4 router, electric drill and basic hand tools. Those type tools are still affordable today. Gradually over the years I added other things. My first router table was a cheap aluminum benchtop one, also Craftsman. Over a 30 year period I added tools as I could afford them but didn't actually have any stationary tools until I retired and built my shop.

My point is that as a younger hobbiest and home owner there was no way I could have justified or afforded the more expensive shop tools. I think a young hobbiest is really in no worse shape today than most of us were at that age. In some ways they are better off.

Consider that some power tools actually don't cost much more today than 30 years ago. I'm thinking of basic corded electric drills and circular saws. As a percentage of income that makes them less expensive today.

If a younger person wants to get into woodworking today at the same level as many of us did years ago I think it's just as easy. Maybe easier given the broad range of tools available in each category.

It's easy to forget that you may have collected the tools you own today over a very long time. I couldn't replace all my tools at once today. And I didn't need them all at once starting out.

 

[dustin510]

Dave,

I'm 23 and a recent graduate from ECU with a BFA concentrating in wood design. It's not often I run across people my age with similar woodworking interests. I recently signed up for instagram on my phone (only for woodworking, I hate social media) and realized there is a large young woodworking community.

Unfortunately, I was the last one to go through the program at ECU before they shut it down. That was one of the only furniture design programs left in the state (I think App state has the only other one but it's not in the fine arts department) and one of the last in the country aside from fancy design schools like RISD. I learned a lot about tools there and know what to look for on craigslist and such. I was fortunate enough to find a great deal on CL a guy selling his entire shop for cheap. It was a great deal so I took out a loan and bought it.

I guess with my ramble what I'm getting to is that I agree, it seems like the industry of quality hand built furniture is dying, and right when I'm diving in. Not only after your generation of makers is no longer around, and when I'm retiring or whatever will the hobby do the dodo bird but also the insight of what to look for in quality furniture. People won't know the difference between some thrown together flat pack laminate IKEA crap vs. a quality hand built piece.

There's my 3/8 of a cents for what it's worth.

 

[ehpoole]

Except you are overlooking an important moderator in all of this...

There is a very large market of used machinery available for those with modest incomes to use and/or fix up if they want well built quality machinery on a minimal budget. Then there are all of the inexpensive consumer grade tools, such as Ryobi, B&D and company, that are quite often of sufficient quality and capability to do some very acceptable work. They will not outlast their more expensive counterparts but they do enable both the hobby and DIY crowd to get into the hobby on somewhat of a shoestring budget -- especially versus Festool.

That said, over the past 30 years most Americans have seen a steady decline in their disposable income due to a variety of economic and political realities (which are NOT to be discussed here per our site posting policy -- so let us avoid the senseless finger pointing!). This has been further exacerbated by new spending demands often considered essential by many families such as rising cable television bills, cellular service plans and, of course, Internet access. Some of this loss in spending power has been masked by the move to overseas manufacturing and the artificially lower costs of goods imported from overseas, though ironically this same push has played a huge roll in the declining economic fortunes of many Americans.

But all said, there is a reason, other than free time alone, why many do not delve deeply into hobbies like woodworking until their later years in life and that is quite often due to financial reasons. Not only do most people earn more towards their later years as well as having accrued greater savings, but the children growing up and graduating from college can free up an amazing amount of disposable income (provided one can avoid taking on significant debts during this period). Those of us who get started much earlier in life are a bit of an anomaly by comparison.

 

[aplpickr]

I started my 8 year old grandson on a scroll saw and hand sanding making Christmas presents. His Mom and Grandmothers still use some of the Kitchen utensils that he made thirteen years ago. He was afraid of a bench top sander with a slow 1" belt. Over the years we added tools and skills. He won a $950 lathe set at thirteen at the national AAW symposium. Now that he is 21 and thinking about starting a family he is ready to inherit and use anything that I pass on to him. Why did all the schools drop shop classes and home-ec. People need a trade and we all like to eat. Modern education.....BAH HUMBUG!

 

[scsmith42]

I concur with Ed. Purchasing tools today, even on a modest salary, is primarily a matter of discipline and prioritization. Skip the restaurant meals, skip the fancy car (and related payments /insurance), skip the cost of entertainment (cable Or satellite TV, movies, etc), etc. if you choose to live modestly you can acquire a lot of high quality tools. More if you choose to buy used tools wisely and fix them up.


Scott

 

[wayne]

I started woodworking about 50 years ago when I was 21. Built a whole set of kitchen cabinets with a basic Craftsman table saw, drill press and router. A el cheapo Craftsman sander, a couple of clamps, cheap set of HSS router bits rounded out my 'woodworking' tool set. Evan at 21 I was able to afford these tools on my very meager 'disposable income' kitty.

Fast forward 50 years.....

I'm in The local Woodcraft store the other day and all of a sudden it hit me...there was no way my 35 year old son (single, decent job, modest home with reasonable mortgage) could reasonably afford to buy any of the stationary power tools much less even consider the Festool line that was in the store. Never mind that they really didn't have any Delta/Rockwell or Powermatic stationary tools. Even look at the little router tables. By the time you added the table, router lift, and fence you were probably close to a $600 bill not including the router.

Woodworkers Supply and to a lesser extent Klingspor are the same way but at least Klingspor does have a reasonable selection of hand power tools.

My conclusion is these places cater to empty nesters that have a decent horde of disposable income. With the death of 99% of the shop classes in our public schools I see very few teenagers that have ever even touched a real power tool or build anything out of wood. Even if their mom/dad are into woodworking their kids still aren't interested. Makes me think I should buy stock in IKEA (ugh).

I see see the woodworking hobby going the way of the dodo bird in the next 30 years once our generation is no longer around.

So anybody else feel the same way?
Is there something I'm not seeing?

Before someone mentions that the younger generation can always look to places like Craigslist for used tools, I'll offer, first they have to be smart enough to even know about this hobby and what its 'tool set' might consist of.

Dave

I don't think it cost anymore to start out today then it did when our generation started. But today's generation whether we are talking hobbies or necessities want to start with what it took our generation 1/2 our life to accumulate. I blame parents and the education system for creating a bunch of elitists.

The other factor is when a used item comes up for sale too many people today are to quick to voice their opinion of what the item is worth and usually their opinion is exactly that an opinion based on their economic stature in life, reminds me of the owner at the auto parts supply house 30 years ago when someone came in to inquire about voltage regulator and when the owner quoted the price of the unit he had in stock the customer balked stating that his competitor had one for a 1/3 less,when asked why he did'nt buy the competitor's regulator customer's response was he didn't have one in stock and he needed it that day the salesman informed him that if he didn't have any his would be free.

No one whether we are talking hobbies or industry does the area of expertise any favors when they spout off their opinions as to a product or service's worth based on their circumstance. I'll step down from my soapbox now.

 

[DanR]

Except you are overlooking an important moderator in all of this...

There is a very large market of used machinery available for those with modest incomes to use and/or fix up if they want well built quality machinery on a minimal budget.

Agreed, I am a cheapskate. I could afford a $1,500 table saw, but since I know that I can find a fixer upper for $100 on Craig's List I don't spend the big bucks. My new saw is a 1950's Boice-Crane cabinet saw. I paid $100 for the saw. The fence is a Unifence that I paid $75 for from a member here. I paid the machine shop $70 to make some replacement parts and bore out some existing blades (the Boice-Crane saw has a 3/4" arbor).

The $245 I spent on the saw is probably money well spent, I wanted a new motor for my old saw (my old saw has a great new motor, but it is not TEFC, so I have to keep cleaning it out), and this one came with a 1.5HP Baldor TEFC, so I think I got a great deal. I also invested a bunch of sweat cleaning the cast iron, aligning the trunnions, and mounting the Unifence.

 

[CrealBilly]

Lol... I still have a ultra thin selection of WWing power tools.

Making something with very little is part of the challenge for me.

I must say you'll be amazed at what you can do with a couple files, some steel and making your own scratch stock profiles. Production techniques? no... but most all my stuff is one of a kind anyways.

 

[BWSmith]

Probably shouldn't respond....oh well?Growing up in the contracting/cabinet biz,basically jaundices me on such matters.

I've framed whole houses with a handsaw.....where's the expense?You're talking about kids....and adults who'll easily spend 100+ $ a month on a cell phone,but have an issue with spending 100$ on an old TS?

It's a lot about the effort.You either have the willingness to get ahead........or you don't.And having reared* a cpl PHD's....and been married to one,believe me...it's not only a very deep subject but one that's hardly discussion worth(there just isn't any clear cut'ness).Not bashing on your thread......just saying,if you're looking for real,practical answers,good luck.

*I raised four wonderful boys.They all have made real contributions to society.........but,they've ALL dropped the "ball" when it comes to craft work(building biz).Their "effort" was in a different direction.It isn't about money....although that IS on the surface of the matter.It's about intent...and effort.

 

[Mike Davis]

So, it's really up to us old geezers to make this thing go forward, I may not be doing my part but I am doing something.

I built my son a tool chest and filled it with quality refurbished hand tools, also add in something else when I get a chance.

Still working on a tool chest that is already donated to Jessup's Mill for training new wood workers. I will be leading workshops and teaching classes up there.

Bill and I have held many low cost work shops and planning more as they are requested. We cover refurbishing hand tools and have tried to set up a workshop for power tool users, but not as many seem to be interested.

I also volunteer for the NCWW Outreach program.

 

[Hmerkle]

I think it is important to determine where to find young people who are interested in the craft.

I was just speaking with someone and we were talking about vocational education and how even when it was in vogue - the kids were being captured too late - we had already bored them to death trying to teach them things they would never use in the building trades, as an auto mechanic or carpenter.

I was part of a thing years ago called world in motion, engineers went into the classroom in 3rd and 4th grade. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) had studied and found that even middle school was too late to capture the mind of the kids for science and engineering!

I submit it is exactly the same for craftspeople - I really believe in the outreach program and wish we could touch more people (young and old) who want to learn!

 

[CrealBilly]

I agree mike up to us old geezers...

I was really surprised to discover the tiny high school here in southern IL actually had wood working electives.

I donated lumber to the school which they very much appreciated. They wanted me to come give some education and a sawmill demo so the students would understand some basics about lumber but my schedule will not allow.

 

[Len]

When my grandson was 11 I gave him a small collection of hand tools, Japanese Ryoba saw, 12" speed square, tape measure, pencils, hammer, etc., etc. His first project was to build a carry-all box for the tools out of some scrap Southern Pine and a 1" diameter dowel I had laying around. Now he's 13 and prefers putting his money into video games instead of power tools. Although he does say he wants to get some more clamps and a better set of chisels "one of these days".

 

[jazzflute]

While there has been a demise in some of the traditional introductions that many had to the hobby, i.e. shop class, don't forget that there is something new that is rising to take its place. The maker movement, complete with its 3D printers, CNC driven machines etc. is capturing the interests of quite a few young folks today. Just check out our local Maker Faire next year; there are a lot of folks there. Cost is always an issue, but a lot of these enthusiasts are learning to make many of their own tools, and that's probably not such a bad thing either.

 

[Hmerkle]

While there has been a demise in some of the traditional introductions that many had to the hobby, i.e. shop class, don't forget that there is something new that is rising to take its place. The maker movement, complete with its 3D printers, CNC driven machines etc. is capturing the interests of quite a few young folks today. Just check out our local Maker Faire next year; there are a lot of folks there. Cost is always an issue, but a lot of these enthusiasts are learning to make many of their own tools, and that's probably not such a bad thing either.

That is a very good point - and while some purists think that there are only computer geeks at these things there is a solid batch of good old neanders!

NCWW probably needs to figure out how to be a part of it...

 

[nn4jw]

Well, I'll belch in church here with apologies in advance to some.

People are either interested in something or not and I think that the why or how of that are really a deep mystery.

Every single hobby has a faction devoted to converting others to their relig.... er hobby. For me it's not so much why is it difficult to recruit converts as why does each hobby have people who think it's a calling to do so?

It's possible that the very act of trying to recruit converts turns off at least as many (more in my opinion) than it turns on.

Now before the lightning hits me I want to state that being open to answering questions from interested people at a demo (or anywhere else for that matter) is very different from recruiting converts.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" and I would add, don't even bother leading the horse to the water. If the horse is thirsty and you have water it will come to you. Just kindly give it some water then.

 

[gator]

Using myself as an example, I'll take a different view on woodworking as a hobby. Living back when there wasn't a 'disposable' bent to everything, I bought my first woodworking tools (I had mechanics tools as a car nut teenager) out of necessity to do home repairs. Fixing a cabinet or chair or table because we couldn't afford to buy a new one. A 3/8" drill, a cheap skil saw (actually my first saw was a sabre saw cause I thought it would be more versatile) but later a skil saw, a 1/4 sheet sander a hammer, etc. Little by little I started expanding woodworking projects and thus tools one at a time. I didn't buy my first router til many years in. With today's disposable mind set, young homeowners don't know how to repair anything and thus don't know how to use or buy tools. That is the tragedy.

George

 

[Mike Davis]

Nobody is talking about forcing kids into slave labor. :dontknow: