Help! What kind of wood is this?

[mpnmatthews]

Alright, so I think the consensus stands as follows:

The table is neither walnut nor cherry, but mahogany or some other common but less expensive substitute.

It was built between 1959 and 1974, dating by the slide mechanism that is made of steel

It may be finished with a nitrocellulose lacquer which can be stripped with DNA.

All this in less than 24 hours? You guys are awesome, no matter what your wives say about you lol

 

[bluedawg76]

lacquer can be stripped w/ lacquer thinner or other chemical strippers, but not DNA.

Alright, so I think the consensus stands as follows:

The table is neither walnut nor cherry, but mahogany or some other common but less expensive substitute.

It was built between 1959 and 1974, dating by the slide mechanism that is made of steel

It may be finished with a nitrocellulose lacquer which can be stripped with DNA.

All this in less than 24 hours? You guys are awesome, no matter what your wives say about you lol

 

[mpnmatthews]

lacquer can be stripped w/ lacquer thinner or other chemical strippers, but not DNA.

That's an important correction. But the good thing is, according to Sam, I shouldn't be looking to refinish the table anyway. Which is exciting!

 

[CrealBilly]

I've assembled/repaired many of those tables in the days of my youth. Two things tell me that approx date. The use of phillips head screws and the square bolts. Puts my estimation in the mid to late 70's, early 80's.

The top is a thick cherry veneer (Look close at the edges and you'll see) over a solid sub straight of edged glued mahogany - most likely the aprons are cherry to match the veneered top. The chairs are also cherry.

Many different companies manufactured various parts. The final product was assembled at the furniture store where it was then sold to a consumer. That's why there is no makers mark.

A few of the furniture stores i worked at back in the day used a branding iron to burn the company name on the underside of the furniture we assembled but it was uncommon...

See back then you could buy all the parts needed to make up a customer order (including scratch and dents) pay to have a kid like me assemble/touch up/repair and make a nice profit selling it to a customer.

 

[mpnmatthews]

I've assembled/repaired many of those tables in the days of my youth. Two things tell me that approx date. The use of phillips head screws and the square bolts. Puts my estimation in the mid to late 70's, early 80's.

The top is a thick cherry veneer (Look close at the edges and you'll see) over a solid sub straight of edged glued mahogany - most likely the aprons are cherry to match the veneered top. The chairs are also cherry.

Many different companies manufactured various parts. The final product was assembled at the furniture store where it was then sold to a consumer. That's why there is no makers mark.

A few of the furniture stores i worked at back in the day used a branding iron to burn the company name on the underside of the furniture we assembled but it was uncommon...

See back then you could buy all the parts needed to make up a customer order (including scratch and dents) pay to have a kid like me assemble/touch up/repair and make a nice profit selling it to a customer.

Wow, Jeff - your words are dripping with the confidence of experience. You've explained why some thought it was cherry (it is) and some thought it was mahogany (it is) and why there is no maker's mark. Your date of manufacture is on point, too. I don't know how you saw the cherry veneer before I did even though I sit at that table every day and I took the pictures at night.

The way you put your words together reminds me of my grandfather, and I'm not implying that you're old lol - it's a compliment. I would ask him to explain something to me, and he would start, "Well, son, you see: the rain falls on the mountains and flows into little streams..." And four days later I'd wake up lying on my face in the middle of the woods, wondering how I got there! lol

Do you still suggest mineral spirits for the table top and the chairs too?

 

[CrealBilly]

I may add... the reason they used mahogany as a sub straight for the top is it is stable as all heck... mahogany stays put... later in the 80's they started using some weird kind of fruit wood as a sub straight. That fruit wood was not near as stable and was subject to cracking and shrinkage pretty bad. Eventually it evolved into the crap we buy today. Hang on to that table and chairs with a refinish and some TLC it will outlast you.

From memory... the most common mfg of that style of top was kincade back then. I dont know if they are still in business or not? I recall you could order tops from them - kind of like (build your own). Several furniture stores i worked at back then - did just that.

 

[CrealBilly]

Wow, Jeff - your words are dripping with the confidence of experience. You've explained why some thought it was cherry (it is) and some thought it was mahogany (it is) and why there is no maker's mark. Your date of manufacture is on point, too. I don't know how you saw the cherry veneer before I did even though I sit at that table every day and I took the pictures at night.

The way you put your words together reminds me of my grandfather, and I'm not implying that you're old lol - it's a compliment. I would ask him to explain something to me, and he would start, "Well, son, you see: the rain falls on the mountains and flows into little streams..." And four days later I'd wake up lying on my face in the middle of the woods, wondering how I got there! lol

Do you still suggest mineral spirits for the table top and the chairs too?

Lol... thats what happens when your first job is at a furniture store at the ripe old age of 12 and your assistant manger at 15. The first thing i did was to hire my best friend and together we made a lot of money for the owner. And then at 19 ran your own furniture touch up and repair business.

For refinishing call mohawk and ask to speak to someone in the lab about what you need to refinish the DR set to new condition. Nice folks / great products / highly recomended - they will treat you right.

 

[dino drosas]

I have to go with Sapele. The ribbon effect would be quarter sawn. My 2 cents!

 

[Tarhead]

Howdy neighbor!
I you want to clean the finish use Naptha from a hardware/paint store. Naptha doesn't soften varnish, lacquer and shellac finishes like Mineral Spirits, Lacquer Thinner and DNA can. It does a great job on household grease and grime. BTW... Ronsonol Lighter Fluid no longer contains Naptha.

Mark

 

[Jeff]

I'm thinking again (dangerous) and have read and reread this entire post.

In summary, it is what it is in your home today. Overall the dining set appears to be in pretty good shape but needs some maintenance and tlc.

1. Clean it thoroughly with MS/naphtha and elbow grease to remove the grime and wax. Assess the overall appearance and feel.

2. Seal the relevant parts with Zinsser Seal Coat (100% dewaxed clear shellac, 2 lb. cut in the can). The dewaxed shellac seals the surfaces so you'll have fewer problems with water spotting and preps it for a topcoat of your choice without adhesion problems.

Evaluation and pics for plan B if needed.

 

[mpnmatthews]

I'm thinking again (dangerous) and have read and reread this entire post.

In summary, it is what it is in your home today. Overall the dining set appears to be in pretty good shape but needs some maintenance and tlc.

1. Clean it thoroughly with MS/naphtha and elbow grease to remove the grime and wax. Assess the overall appearance and feel.

2. Seal the relevant parts with Zinsser Seal Coat (100% dewaxed clear shellac, 2 lb. cut in the can). The dewaxed shellac seals the surfaces so you'll have fewer problems with water spotting and preps it for a topcoat of your choice without adhesion problems.

Evaluation and pics for plan B if needed.

What do you mean by relevant parts? And then, what topcoat could I use to waterproof the finish?

 

[Jeff]

Mike,

Your focus is the table top with 2 kids coming along. The aprons, legs, and chairs may be fine with a good cleaning.

After cleaning the table top the Zinsser Seal Coat seals that surface. It's not water/wine/margarita proof so you'll want something more durable over that.

I have a bias for Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish. It's easily applied, maintained, and repaired if necessary. It's good for floors, countertops, and tables but others have their personal favorites too.

http://www.waterlox.com/

 

[mpnmatthews]

Okay fellas. Here is where I am now.

I got some VM&P Naphtha, scouring pads, and latex from the local hardware store and went to work on my old boards.

You can see in the pictures how the table looked after I finished rubbing it down. On top there developed this thick dusty haze that looked like water stains yet they were dry and I could rub it off with my finger pads.

I set to clearing up the hazy dusty white stuff with the scouring pad and what resulted was what looked like fine sanding dust. Maybe that's what it is, or maybe that's the top layer of grime that I'm scrubbing through... Not sure. As I rubbed with the scouring pad, I noticed that this fine dust was getting into and emphasizing every dent and ding and divot on the table surface. The surface did feel considerably cleaner, but the leftover dust seems like it could be a problem.

So tell me:

A. Have I done this correctly, have I used the right implements?
B. What will I do once I get all the white stuff scrubbed away? Just rub it down with the Old English and keep moving?

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Tarhead]

A. Have I done this correctly, have I used the right implements?
B. What will I do once I get all the white stuff scrubbed away? Just rub it down with the Old English and keep moving?

Let me know what you guys think.

A. I would have started with a cloth. The white stuff looks like it might be grain filler (Pumice?) and/or the previous finish that came up with the scrub pad. If it is the filler you will not be able to get a totally flat, totally smooth finish on it unless you apply another filler. You also need to decide if you want the top to have a homogeneous appearance or not. If so, you need to get a coat of stain on it to even out the different shades of the boards used. Then top coat with whatever you want. I know you said you didn't want poly, but it can be done with a combination of brushing 3 coats of poly on first and then hand rubbing 3-4 thin coats of gel poly to get a hand rubbed finish that doesn't look plastic dipped. I used this on a media cabinet top and it looks great and is very bulletproof. PM me for more details or look at Fine Woodworking Sept 2010 for a good article on this method.

B. DO NOT USE OLD ENGLISH OR ANY OTHER FURNITURE POLISH PRODUCT YOU CAN FIND ON A SHELF IN THE CLEANING SECTION OF A RETAIL STORE!!! They all contain Silicones which will play havoc with future finishing efforts and have a net drying effect after the volatiles flash off.

 

[Tarhead]

Your scrub pad is equal to 00 steel wool. The white (non-abrasive) version is what you want for cleaning. The gray version is equal to 0000 steel wool.
I just looked at your pics again and you my just need to touch up a few areas where the finish and some of the stain is gone. The flash washed out the color in some of the pics. The grain still looks filled. The dents can be raised with a wet cloth and a soldering iron.

 

[CrealBilly]

Pretty sure the "white dust" is silicon from furniture polishing like pledge or some other polish.

 

[mpnmatthews]

Jeff and Mark, I have been using Old English in the past to try to clean the table. Should I work it with the naphtha until none of that white stuff remains?

 

[bluedawg76]

Jeff and Mark, I have been using Old English in the past to try to clean the table. Should I work it with the naphtha until none of that white stuff remains?

yes, but w/ a non-abrasive pad or cloth. The table will look dull after the solvent flashes off. I doubt you've sanded through the finish so you should be ok there and not need to re-finish. Once clean and wiped off, polish w/ a dark paste wax to restore the luster. I like this stuff, but others are out there. I don't like clear paste wax on dark furniture b/c it will leave white specks in any unfilled pores and crevices.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...Pmr4XXKjK4FjmO656epRzFdWNwbnkgTmFgaAlXB8P8HAQ

 

[SubGuy]

That would ring true of "silca dropout"... it happens in anti-freeze.

Pretty sure the "white dust" is silicon from furniture polishing like pledge or some other polish.

 

[mpnmatthews]

yes, but w/ a non-abrasive pad or cloth. The table will look dull after the solvent flashes off. I doubt you've sanded through the finish so you should be ok there and not need to re-finish. Once clean and wiped off, polish w/ a dark paste wax to restore the luster. I like this stuff, but others are out there. I don't like clear paste wax on dark furniture b/c it will leave white specks in any unfilled pores and crevices.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...Pmr4XXKjK4FjmO656epRzFdWNwbnkgTmFgaAlXB8P8HAQ

So a sponge or a chamois will do the trick...