Ever wonder why they are called sharpening stones?

[froglips]

...... and not surface grinders? Or flattening stones? Or shaping stones?

Big time :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

I got some pics on the way, but I'm busting at the seams to share

My buddy Ed Brant finally set me on the right path (after having told me this numerous times). Being dense, it didn't sink in.

I keep taking these old chisels, plane irons and such things to my water and/or diamond stones.

Well, as I'm now willing to admit, I've spent hours and days and weeks at this task.

Let me tell you, even a good 220 grit waterstone is not up to the task of taking off a lot of metal to flatten a bad back of a plane iron.

Note, I'm not saying its impossible, I'm saying its impractical.

Also, in the interest of full whining/disclosure, I think many of us have been mislead. When a video/article/magazine/book/demo is going on. They seem to most often start with new irons/chisels that are already ground "mostly flat".

In this case, starting on stones makes sense.

I just setup a test with some 36 grit blue zirconia sanding belts (pics to follow) and flattened and shaped a plane iron in about 2 minutes that I've had countless hours on the stones.

Yes, I now have deep scratches, but those come out quickly. Mainly now that I'm starting from a flat surface.

Sheesh.

So, for anyone one out there like me, who must and continues to paddle up stream, spit in the wind and reinvent the square wheel, take heart in this:

Flattening is not the same as Sharpening.

:BangHead: leads to :gar-Bi

Jim

 

[Glennbear]

Thanks for pointing this out Jim, kind of like using a ROS vs a planer on wood that is too thick. Both methods will get you there but in different decades. :rotflm:

 

[Mike Davis]

That's why i have belts from 36 grit to 600 grit for my Wilton 2 x 72 belt grinder as well as two other belt sanders and a couple grind stones. Flattening, shaping, sharpening and honing are the four steps to a working cutting tool. After you have the first three done you can maintain with the fourth. And by maintain I mean constantly hone as you work.

I see people all the time trying to hone a dull blade without sharpening first or grinding a gouge and calling it good to go. They are wasting time and working harder while settling for inferior work. All because they don't understand the four steps.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Jim, I congratulate you on coming to this realization much sooner than I did. I've been woodworking just over 40 years, and only recently did I make this "amazing discovery". :widea:

My sharpening skills are still a ways from where I'd like them to be, but they are far better than they were a few years ago. :eusa_danc

Bill

 

[ehpoole]

I've come to the same conclusion after flattening a couple of planes myself. I've been looking at some of the stationary belt/disc sanders to reallocate that task to.

My wakeup wasn't just the time (for me its a hobby, so time is cheap), but the volume of water stone you consume in the course of flattening. I figure a few more days of that would have paid for a decent belt and disc benchtop sander, so might as well go that route in the future.

 

[Dean Maiorano]

Mike,

While working a flat chisel, plane blade, etc., what steps do you take to make sure the flattened surface plane (geometrically speaking) remains parallel to the plane of the reverse side? Obviously you want to keep both surfaces parallel, what is your method? I have methods I've used previously and ideas on how to improve but I'd like your expert advice please.

I have done my own share of grinding, rough sanding, shaping, sharpening and honing chisels over the years. I've even fabricated gouges and skew chisels from 'spring steel' and old chisel stock. However, now I'm playing with more expensive tools and even though they were bought on the cheap, I want to make sure the results don't diminish their pedigree and potential value.

Thanks,

Dean

 

[Mike Davis]

Dino,

Unless you have a surface grinder you will not easily get perfectly parallel surfaces. If I can see the difference I can grind it out, If I can't see it i don't worry about it. You can check with a micrometer, but again unless you have machinist tools to do the work it is a waste of time to measure it. All you will do is keep awake at night worrying about the .003 that you measured.

So, if it looks good it is good, it you don't like the way it looks regrind it. But, don't obsess about perfection.

 

[CarvedTones]

I agree with Mike. It's one of those things that is inconsequential unless it's not...

Seriously, it has to be way out before it would make a difference.

 

[Dean Maiorano]

Thank you both, again, for your great advice.

I've managed to buy some quality tools recently and I'm trying to keep them that way!

 

[mkepke]

Jim - if you're working from raw castings or custom profiling or somesuch I can see the need, but otherwise I have a hard time imagining a quality retail plane/iron/chisel needing that much work. By definition they don't.

Where are these "old chisels, plane irons and such things" coming from ?

-Mark, who expects to grind a lot of metal off a bowl gouge to shape it, but not a Stanley plane iron.

 

[froglips]

Mark, to know me is to be baffled that I ever managed to tie my shoe laces and chew gum on the same day

I have old (100+ year) planes that have seen better days. For some reason, I feel the need to flatten the backs of the irons.

These irons are so far from flat, they aren't even in the same phone book

But, what I'm learning, finally, is in such situations, instead of spending 3 months on my 8000 grit stone, maybe its time I get a better sense of when to back up the bus to the coarse grits!

Some wise folks have also mentioned that I might just want to spend $30 and get a new iron........ vs. spending $500 in wet/dry sandpaper......

In my long time with this game, I did tune up 3 new tools, and boy, that was fun and worked as advertised.

If only I could walk away from that old plane or chisel in the sad and lonely corner of the antique store......

Jim