Dust Collector opinions

[old-delta]

In researching 2HP dust collectors there is a wide range in price from $200 to $1,200.
What is anyone's opinion on Harbor Freight? While CFM and micron filtration are the main features,
what justifies the price difference? Pictured is a Central Machinery from Harbor Freight for $200. 2HP 1550 CFM with a 5 micron bag. I'd rather have the canister however a 3 micron canister can run as much as a complete collector. I'm aware I'll have to purchase the remote, hose and connectors separately. Is a Jet of same specs worth 4 times the difference in money? I'm only using it on table saw and or planer and of course my downdraft table. 1550 CFM is more than i need for what I'm doing.

 

[zapdafish]

usually considered one of the gems from harbor freight. most common upgrade is the wynn filter

I have it and it works great. I also added a top hat separator which means I just need to empty a trashcan instead of dealing with the plastic bags.

https://wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/harbor-freight-collectors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3RuKFqYHNQ


Only downside for me is its got quite a big floor footprint after adding the separator but since moving I have a little more space in my garage so its not that big a deal to me anymore

 

[Pop Golden]

A good many folks I know have a HF DC. They all seem happy with this DC. I am planing to get one and fit it out with a Thien filter.

Pop

 

[junquecol]

Look at pairing the HF DC with an Onieda Super Dust Deputy. Mount the assembly on the wall. As the inventor to the TOP HAT, it amazes me how successful it is.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

I had one for a few years. Fantastic for the price.

 

[Rwe2156]

I have a Jet DC and compared to the HF units I can tell it is much much heavier, which tells me cast iron impeller. The motor also looks much heavier duty.

I'm pretty leary of anything HF with moving parts or motors. I do have a pedestal fan that's been working well for 5 or 6 years. That being said, the consensus on several forums is the HF unit is OK but definitely get the 2HP unit.

I have a friend who does ww'ing and machining. One day I noticed he has 5 or 6 HF 4" grinders, all with different fitments. Asked why, he said they are 20 bucks apiece when one dies he throws it away and buys another. Some only last 3 months, some he's had for 5+ years. Switches and bearings are what go.

If you go that route, I definitely recommend a canister filter those bags are a hazard inside a shop.

And buy the extended warranty plan. ;-)

 

[Charlie Buchanan]

Wynn filters makes great filters at reasonable prices. I have one on a 1 1/2 hp Jet. Works great for table saw and planer. Wynn has lots of info including specific instructions for fitting their filters to HF collectors. The filter is the important thing the blower just moves the air.
https://wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/harbor-freight-collectors/

 

[JimD]

I had a Delta AP-400 in my last shop. I had it hooked up to S&D piping with gates at each tool and it worked but never really had great suction. I'm really space challenged in the current single car garage workshop and don't currently have a DC. My little Senco air compressor works fine for the shop, however, so I might move the bigger unit out of the corner and into the car garage freeing up about enough space for a DC. If I do this, I will buy the HF. Too much bang for the buck and I'm too cheap to go with a better unit.

If it doesn't pull hard enough, which seems unlikely, I will retrofit an impeller from Jet like other people talk about. It adds significantly to the cost, however. I suspect the stock unit will be fine for me.

I don't plan to use a cartridge filter. I had one on the Delta. The stock bags were TERRIBLE. Hopefully the HF are better. The delta ones were only rated 5 micron or something and they blew all the fine dust all over the shop. I never fully recovered from that - it was everywhere. I first put on shaker felt bags. Those worked a LOT better. But when I bumped them, dust came out. And they always had dust on the surface. But Matthias on the "Woodworking for Engineers" has some interesting thoughts on this topic and things bags are pretty effective based upon his measurements. But what I plan is to put on a Super Dust Deputy and let it's exhaust go outside. My shop is not heated or cooled so I don't have to worry about loosing conditioned air. I don't want to blow all the sawdust out but the dust deputy gets the vast majority of the debris on my shop vac and I think this is a reasonable option for the DC. I did not like cleaning the cannister filter. Time consuming. With a pre-separator, it would be less but blowing outside is even less. And it will help a smaller DC continue to pull enough air. There is a you tube by a Tyler guy that looks like a good build.

 

[Chilihead]

As previously mentioned, the HF collector is a gem. I've had mine for 6 years now. Serves my shop wonderfully. I would highly recommend buying this unit and with the extra money you'll save over name brand, buy the Wynn filter. The Wynn improves the suction on the machine due to more suface area on the filter, and it makes for a far safer shop for you to breathe.

 

[golfdad]

Grizzly has a 2HP with a cannister for 500$. I have had mine for 10years.....I would say its better built than the Harbor Freight machine

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

How soon they forget.

I suggest you read the archives. First if you look at the HF motor amp draw, it can't be a 2 hp motor, its more like 1.5 hp. The diam. of the impeller is small, so can not move anywhere near the CFM quoted, especially if you load it up with a separator, cartridge filter, or ducting. Dust collection in a wood shop is about moving a large volume of air (CFM), not suction, though some of that is required too, which is static pressure- remember the old vacuum commercial where they lift a bowling ball? That is a demonstration of static pressure. Do not try to duct a HF unit, you gain too much resistance (static pressure) and lose too much CFM. The more feet of duct and more bends the worse it gets. There are tables that will show you the loss per foot and per bend as well as the recommended minimum CFM at various WW machines. The dangerous wood dust is .5 to 10 microns. You are wasting your money adding an expensive cartridge filter to a DC that does not have a good cyclone. Too much fine dust will get through and permanently clog the filter, which then reduces CFM which reduces collection- a big vicious cycle. Something is usually better than nothing but you are not getting much with the HF unit other than a false sense of security that you are at least doing something. There is so much more involved! Read Bill Pentz's website.

 

[gmakra]

Here we go again with the drivel on dust collection.
I was in HVAC for over forty years and have work on everything from large chillers to clean rooms and industrial air cleaners that removed lead from the air.
I am also quite familiar with TAB equipment that stand for Test and Balance equipment.
I will keep it real simple here forget microns, it is a BS conversation in a woodworking shop.
Sit in you living room on a late afternoon with the sun low and look at all the dust in the air that dust is much smaller to larger than 5 microns.
So if you have that background dust with creating any more dust than how can you possibly get it cleaner than an operating room?

I admire Bill Pence he created a demand for dust collection equipment and very cleverly made a plexiglass cyclone separator which he makes a ton of money off of.
The technology of the cyclone separator has been around for many many years!
Does plastic make it any better?

As far as friction loss in a duct why not use a tool called a "ductulator" some very smart people have figured out the problem long ago.
Its cheap to buy and it eliminates opinions of friction loss.

If you have ever used an amp probe you will see that a electric motor will draw different amperages depending upon how the motor is loaded.
So using AMPS to figure HP is an educated guess.

The story on impellers is just an internet myth weather they are welded or cast they are a simple straight blade fan and move air.
If your worried about dust impingement wearing out the wheel you should worry about wearing through on the cyclone separator or duct work also.
BTW I have only seen one fan scater and that was on the exhaust of a heat treat oven.

Filters is personal preference I use 3 large bag filters and have them in the attic out of the way.
I have a magnehelic to tell me the pressure differential when the filters get plugged.

So here is my 2 cents to the Original Post if you want get yourself a Harbor Freight dust collector.
The motor is not quite as nice as a Lesson or Baldor but how much time will you be running the collector?
If your like me you will only run it when your equipment is turned on.
And if your like me you may forget to turn on occasionally LOL.

You can also get a Torit dust collector with gold plated duct work but I think you will see that the performance is similar and in the end its just a fancy vacuum system.

 

[JimD]

My input is similar to George's and different from Alan's. Bill Pence does a service to us by testing equipment and doing careful work to figure things out. He is not so straight forward with the fact that he has unusual sensitivities to dust. If you look at enough of his website you find out that he not only filters his shop unusually well, he also filters his house unusually well. And he has to because of health issues. So his minimum system is necessary for him, the question is if it is necessary for the rest of us whose bodies react more typically to dust.

My opinions are shaped by the data taken by owners of dylos dust measurement devices. By education I am an engineer and we are trained to base our decisions on data. There is good input on the Woodworking for Engineers website and in threads on Sawmill Creek. These measurement indicate that workshops do not need to be unusually dusty environments but for that to be true we need to use a DC or shop vac (for smaller generators) and possibly air filtration. Or open the doors and allow the breeze to go through the area taking dust with it. With a decent DC (absolutely needs to have fine filtration on the output, not 5 micron bags) you can get to normal outside levels of dust. With both a DC and filtration, you probably can have cleaner air than inside your house. Air filters can be as simple as a box fan with a good furnace filter attached.

I used 4 inch S&D piping with flex to the tools with my AP-400. It picked up the dust from my tools fairly well. It didn't move enough air to get everything from the CMS or RAS. It wouldn't get everything from my 8 5/8 jointer so I did not try it on my 10 inch planner. But it was fine for the table saw and router table and smaller tools. It's a "1hp" DC rated at 650 CFM.

I don't think the HF unit moves twice the air as my AP-400 did but it might. If it moves 50% more, it would handle my jointer and probably my planner. There are also tests of amp draw and static pressure of modified HF units with a larger impeller. It is pretty clear it will make it pull harder and move more air. But I think the unmodified unit is probably enough for my needs.

In terms of the fine dust, it is the easiest to move. Any DC that gets the chips is moving the fine dust. It is a question of what it does with it. With coarse filtration it is blowing it back at you. That only saves you sweeping up, it doesn't decrease the level of harmful dust.

A HF DC doesn't move enough air to meet Bill Pence's needs. It is not getting all the dust at the source so a shop using it (alone) will not be always at levels of a really well filtered house. But if you are OK breathing outside air and in a house with no more than normal furnace filters installed, you do not need a Bill Pence system.

 

[Rwe2156]

How soon they forget.

I suggest you read the archives. First if you look at the HF motor amp draw, it can't be a 2 hp motor, its more like 1.5 hp. The diam. of the impeller is small, so can not move anywhere near the CFM quoted, especially if you load it up with a separator, cartridge filter, or ducting. Dust collection in a wood shop is about moving a large volume of air (CFM), not suction, though some of that is required too, which is static pressure- remember the old vacuum commercial where they lift a bowling ball? That is a demonstration of static pressure. Do not try to duct a HF unit, you gain too much resistance (static pressure) and lose too much CFM. The more feet of duct and more bends the worse it gets. There are tables that will show you the loss per foot and per bend as well as the recommended minimum CFM at various WW machines. The dangerous wood dust is .5 to 10 microns. You are wasting your money adding an expensive cartridge filter to a DC that does not have a good cyclone. Too much fine dust will get through and permanently clog the filter, which then reduces CFM which reduces collection- a big vicious cycle. Something is usually better than nothing but you are not getting much with the HF unit other than a false sense of security that you are at least doing something. There is so much more involved! Read Bill Pentz's website.

I agree with all of this, but actually the amp draw on the HF website is spec'd at 20 which isn't the actual draw either. Someone somewhere has probably put an ammeter on one of these, so you could be right. Assuming 745 W/HP, a 1 1/2 HP motor = 9A.

For someone on a budget who doesn't have a ducted system, its a viable alternative and many people are satisified with them.

One thing I learned about DC (and I've put 3 systems together) and I am certainly no expert - but you can try to understand all the scientific data and fry your brain on Pentz, but in the end, its what works for you.

Example: on my last DC system, I knew I wanted at least a 3HP blower & 6" ducting. Put it all together and guess what? You can't buy a standalone 3HP blower anywhere without spending ridiculous money.

So I hooked up my old Jet 1 1/2HP blower and cyclone, vented outside and guess what - I've still got it and it works well enough to suit me. It collects a tables saw 25 feet away.

 

[CDPeters]

I too went through all the study and hemming and hawing over what to do in my shop for dust collection. In the end, I wound up with a Pence-design ClearVue 1800, and I do love it, however, I have found that despite having a big cyclone unit, I still get some fine dust floating and I need to do some improvements to fix that - more of a housekeeping issue than a health one though.

So, here are my suggestions - irregardless of the type of DC unit you settle on:

1. Get the input to the duct opening as close to the dust source as you can. Air velocity decreases exponentially with distance from the duct opening face and too far away allows the material you are trying to capture to escape.
2. If you can, vent the DC exhaust outside
3. If you can't vent outside, use the Wynn filters to "clean" exhaust air so that your DC doesn't wind up being a "dust pump"
4. A separator (cyclone) does help to remove a large percentage of particulates before the filter, but like everything else it's a trade-off. If you are doing #2 (no pun intended), then a cyclone may not be necessary.

Given the OP's original question, my suggestion would be to go for the HF unit and locate it outside the shop - or plenum the filter port and duct it outside. Get the input duct face as close to the dust source as practical and feasible.

My $0.02 worth,
Chris

 

[JimD]

I googled around Youtube while eating lunch. My favorite build is by DIY Tyler, I think this will the a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=856&v=0RAoj4urS-Y

Gray house studios has a similar setup but also installed a larger impeller. With the larger impeller and 6 inch house, they measured the CFM at about 750CFM. The gross overstatements of airflow seem to be normal for this product, not unique to HF. The nature of a DC is that it moves a lot of air but is very sensitive to restriction. With less restriction, they move a lot more air. Shop vacuums move a lot less air but are less sensitive to restriction. In the DIY Tyler video, he uses 4 inch S&D piping and has about a 40 foot run but believes his airflow is adequate. He shows his setup picking up the chips off his planner which appears to be about 12 inch.

 

[CDPeters]

The gross overstatements of airflow seem to be normal for this product, not unique to HF.

Precisely so - most (all?) of the manufacturers quote the CFM from the fan curve at the lowest end of the static pressure ("unrestricted") - more or less a theoretical number.

 

[gmakra]

Precisely so - most (all?) of the manufacturers quote the CFM from the fan curve at the lowest end of the static pressure ("unrestricted") - more or less a theoretical number.

So how else would you give a CFM figure?
The numbers don't really mean anything since every installation is different dependent on amount of fittings, leakage, length of corrugated flex duct.
So every install will run different and preform differently.
People knock the HF dust collector but the dirty secret is there are not that many companies out there making this stuff.
I have a Penn State 3 HP that looks surprising the same as a HF and Grizzly looks pretty similar too.