consistency of link belts

[tvrgeek]

How accurate are the lengths of the twist link belts? I say this as my TS uses three belts in parallel. The OEM belts were absolute garbage as no two were the same length, so I was basically driving with one and the other two flopping around. So, is the quality control, and "run in" stretch consistent enough to run them in parallel? I have decent US made belts, but they still "set" so it is a bit of a pain changing blades.

 

[pop-pop]

How accurate are the lengths of the twist link belts? I say this as my TS uses three belts in parallel. The OEM belts were absolute garbage as no two were the same length, so I was basically driving with one and the other two flopping around. So, is the quality control, and "run in" stretch consistent enough to run them in parallel? I have decent US made belts, but they still "set" so it is a bit of a pain changing blades.

One big plus is you can "tune" the length one link at a time. A downside is they have gotten quite pricey like $10 a foot when once they were $3-4.

 

[tvrgeek]

Not quite what I am looking for. Say I have three belts, all the same number of links. When running, after they seat and streatch, how close in diameter will they remain? The D&D power and the Gates belts will be dead on, where the Chinese junk areoff a few mm, which is enough that one takes the power and the others just vibrate.

 

[pop-pop]

The link belts are slightly "stretchier" than conventional V belts. This should help keeping all three driving.

I can't find the reference right off, but for fixed shaft locations, PowerTwist recommends that one rolls the belt onto the pulley(s). Therefore, there has to be a bit of longitudinal give in the assemblage of links.

 

[chris_goris]

why not change out the pulleys? Larger belts? cogged belts?

 

[pop-pop]

I PMed this to Scott and on second thought it may be of interest to others. It is one page describing measuring, assembling, and installing PowerTwist belts.

http://cdn2.grizzly.com/manuals/g3639_m.pdf

 

[NOTW]

I run a link belt on my jointer, never noticed any slipping or stretching but don't have any before or after numbers to compare. I know it is a lot smoother and quieter than the v-belt

 

[bob vaughan]

Link Belts tend to be a little thicker than standard belts. This can be an interference issue with some machines like table saws where the top pulley approaches the bottom of the table.

 

[cfield60]

How accurate are the lengths of the twist link belts? I say this as my TS uses three belts in parallel. The OEM belts were absolute garbage as no two were the same length, so I was basically driving with one and the other two flopping around. So, is the quality control, and "run in" stretch consistent enouAs a matter of fact I just last week changed the v belt on an old gh to run them in parallel? I have decent US made belts, but they still "set" so it is a bit of a pain changing blades.

If this helps, I have been operating a PM66 with 3 link belts for at least 10 years and wouldn't go back to regular v belts. The power link belts run much smoother in my opinion and also quieter.

 

[tvrgeek]

Jeff, Yes this is what I was asking. I have belts on order for my DP and if they work out, will do the TS. BS has a multi-rib so no problem. Might take all the leftovers and see if I can do the jointer, but I did get a Gates AX series for it.

 

[cfield60]

Jeff, Yes this is what I was asking. I have belts on order for my DP and if they work out, will do the TS. BS has a multi-rib so no problem. Might take all the leftovers and see if I can do the jointer, but I did get a Gates AX series for it.

I also forgot to mention that I had a bad vibration when using my vintage delta drill press. I noticed a knot in the v belt where the connecting joint was so I traded it out for a link belt and was amazed at the difference. They really do work well.

 

[tvrgeek]

Put them on my old Delta drill press. Not sure really if they are any smoother, but I was running Gates and D&D power AX series belts. Now compared to the total junk that comes on the machines, yea much better. The Chinese can't make a belt that is round or two the same size. So, as a quick test, the only advantage I can see right off is not taking a set. I had to add a little more tension to keep them from vibrating over the AX series.

Going to run them in a bit and then swap back and forth to see if they are really better than the Gates. The D&D are a bit stiffer than the Gates. Heck, even a Dayco is a world of improvement over the Chinese junk. Of course, the minimum radius of the sheave is still in violation. Every single machine I have uses the smallest sheave that is below the belt spec. I can see it on things like the TS where the clearance is an issue, but no excuse on my other machines other than engineers who are not doing their job. ( I have other words for them, but not in a family friendly forum)

 

[tvrgeek]

BUSTED!!
Initial impression was they were not smoother. So I set up a dial indicator against the post right below the head. Gates and D&D belts, I got about 1/4 to 1/2 thou vibration. Best setting varying the belt tension. Some "flop" visible, but not much. Running 1040 RPM. Swapped on the link belts. TWICE the vibration. Best setting slightly looser than the V-belts and a little more visible flop. Tightening either set to minimal visible flop just made the bearings scream and did not reduce vibration. In both cases, lowest vibration could be found by sound. I was also surprised the link belts got warmer to the touch, but that may be their smaller contact patch. So, as I suspected, the wonderful results many have had, and I am not denying them at all, is the change from the total garbage that came on the machine to a decent belt, but the best US made AX series cogged belts are still better and way cheaper.

So Junk? No. Wonderful? No. I am still considering my idea of a hydraulic damper on the idler arm. I was looking for an excuse to buy a Nova, but recent reports of quality issues, post shortage, have me thinking I should wait a bit or just live with the Delta. In their defense, it sounds like the tech support remans excellent so I expect they will sort out the issues.

 

[jlwest]

I am on my second set of belts on a 20 year old Unisaw. Both sets are Gates and work great.

 

[pcooper]

I've been reading this thread with interest, I've got linked belts on my table saw and jointer. My thoughts on those is they're smoother than what I took off. For machines that have more power, I wonder if they'll hold up that well, and with machines that use multiple belts, I'd think they wouldn't be the right choice. I remember years ago going into a parts store (before Auto Zone, etc.) getting matched sets of belts for use on multiple sheave pulleys. I also found that most automotive belts aren't the same as machinery belts, so wonder where one would buy proper belts these days if over the counter belts don't work just right.

 

[tvrgeek]

Gates and D&D power. D&D has the odd sizes the Chinese machines seem to use. When I was in industry doing failure analysis, we never had an issue with Gates. AX series, 1/2 inch and underside cogged, can run with the too small diameter sheaves better than a solid V belt. I still wish all my tools had wide multi groove belts. My band saw does. Purrs. I noticed most new table saws have switched. One might also notice every auto switched to ribbed belts years ago. Jet and Delta use ribbed belts on their drill presses now. Sawstop, new Harvey, Laguna, Powermatic table saws went ribbed.

Modern belts should be more consistent as the belting is synthetic, glass, or even steel in specialty small belts, where the old belts were cotton. But Advance-Napa-Zone belts will be price based, not always quality based.

 

[Rick Mainhart]

You might consider banded v-belts as shown here:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Since banded v-belts are made on the same mold at the same time, they have a much better chance of being the same size. The back binding helps distribute the load better than three individual belts.

McMaster also offers matched belt sets if your pulley will not accommodate the banded v-belts due to pulley dimensions.

From experience, if you are wearing out v-belts, you might consider why. In the big HVAC world, belts wear out due to frequent start/stop cycles. In many cases, installing a soft-start device to the motor reduces the initial full-speed torque on startup (this is evident when you hear the belts screaming for their lives every time the motor was started, and the great pile of carbon-black/rubber dust all over the immediate vicinity).

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/overview/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_motor_soft_starters/basic_soft_starters

Soft starters are not cheap ... in fact they can be as much, if not more than a VFD (and YES, for some motors, you CAN get a VFD ... see this link

Search results for: 'single phase output vfd'

www.wolfautomation.com

As a rule, link belts were (in the industries I worked) used as a temporary repair until the correct v-belts arrived (almost in time delivery has been a pain for a number of years, but that's another discussion). They were not recycled or returned to the toolbox, but tossed, as they were usually worn even after only a few hours (again, start/stop cycles tend to stress things). The good thing about link belts is you can install them without tearing equipment down (think about the spindle on a belt-driven metal lathe).

If link belts work for you ... great ... I however recommend applying the correct belt and resolving the wear issues (I completely ignored pulley misalignment, because wars have been fought over less).

Hope this helps,

Rick

 

[tvrgeek]

I did consider banded belts, but the odd size used on most Chinese machines precludes them. The three D&D belts I put on my TS all have the same tension "feel" and when running, identical flutter where the OEM belts, one was driving and two flopping in the breeze to each unique fault. I actually considered a 2-V instead of a 3 as there would be no slippage between them and it would be less total drag. I don't use it enough to worry.

I do not have perfect pulley alignment, so I split the difference as my motor stack has slightly wider between grooves. But it is at least round where the Delta pulley was drilled askew. The second and third groves, most often used, are the ones closest to perfect. All in parallel planes, Idler to spindle is right on.

Not sure anyone mentioned wear, unless a second set in 20 years is abnormal. As they are rubber, I would suggest 10 years is a quite reasonable life span unless left loose and wore. The issue Jeff mentioned is just the typical crap OEM belts.