I am trying to work with some kiln dried walnut that has a significant amount of sapwood. I assume that I need to dye the sapwood to attempt to match the heartwood before final finishing because I do want uniform color (and fairly dark). Which dyes should I be looking for? Are there any special techniques or tricks to make this more idiot proof?
Color Matching Walnut
- Thread starter Mark Johnson
- Start date
Color matching is probably a non-starter whichever way you try it. I'm told by Scott Smith that kiln dried walnut is basically indistinguishable from air dried walnut in its appearance. However, walnut dried in a steam kiln is an attempt to blend the heartwood and sapwood to reduce waste but it has a washed out muddy looking appearance DAMHIK.
Will you waste too much wood if you cut it out on the table saw making narrower boards?
Will you waste too much wood if you cut it out on the table saw making narrower boards?
Cutting it to just heart wood is a nonstarter.
OK this is just two pennies. It ain't worth much but here it is. One. you could celebrate the contrast and try and orchestrate the piece with that grain. It could be dramatic and beautiful. Two, you could die it dark, any color range you want, gray, or dark brown, or black, with any variation of tone that pleases you. Use some scraps and experiment. It could be fun, you could learn a lot about what you do or do not like. I wish you luck, and I hope you share your experience with us.
If you look at the thread above, you will see the results of coloring walnut with dye. Not stains. If I recall correctly? I think you were a student in the coloring wood class at Phil S shop?
You can get the best dyes made by Lockwood.
Good Luck
Thanks for the inputs. Dan, I was not in the coloring class, but have used dyes in more radical colors (bright blue). Any suggestions on what colors to start blending with?
I too am curious about Dan's color matching process with aniline dyes (Lockwood). The thread that he gave us above barely touches on the topic and the "Dan's Table Build" in the Resources forum says this, but I can't find the picture of the "sapwood that needs blending".
Additionally, if you look at the first photo of the top, you will see sapwood that needs blending. I use aniline dyes and some artist oil paints to blend and match till I like it. I apply a wash coat of clear wax free shellac and seal it.Also, Lockwood has a pretty good selection of dyes to play with using some scrap walnut containing sapwood.
W. D. Lockwood Water Based Walnut Dye Family
W. D. Lockwood Dyes have set the standard for coloring and staining wood since their introduction in 1895. As true aniline dyes they feature a bold colorwww.toolsforworkingwood.com
Danmart77 is a far more accomplished craftsman than I am, so I’d normally not inject this, but I used Lockwood for many years.
My original supplier moved out of New York and I needed some dyes. I did quite of bit of research and the consensus seemed to be that Trans-Tint (by Jeff Jewitt) was the best of the current dyes.
I use both and I can’t honestly recommend one over another.
The reason I mention Trans-Tint, it is in solution and can be color blended by dropping drops into your mix. My water based Lockwood dyes are a powder. I personally find the powder harder to use when color matching.
My original supplier moved out of New York and I needed some dyes. I did quite of bit of research and the consensus seemed to be that Trans-Tint (by Jeff Jewitt) was the best of the current dyes.
I use both and I can’t honestly recommend one over another.
The reason I mention Trans-Tint, it is in solution and can be color blended by dropping drops into your mix. My water based Lockwood dyes are a powder. I personally find the powder harder to use when color matching.
I am very inexperienced with dyeing sapwood but I want to make the comment that you need to remember that walnut sun bleaches. I have several pieces of furniture made of walnut over 10 years ago and the pieces that have been near a window for periods of time are noticably lighter than they started out. A finish with a UV blocker would have helped as would some dye or stain in the hardwood, as well as the sapwood.
I have ordered a number of samples from Lockwood that will allow me to see what is available as well as try to match what I want by blending dyes. I am planning on doing the blending with samples that are already dissolved so that I can " count drops" to get the right mix. I have used "transtint" before and it is good but the water solvent powders dyes have been easier for me to remove if I make a mistake. Thanks for the tip on UV lightening over time. I need to look into that even though the pieces should never really see direct sunlight.
Mark
I recommended Lockwood because they make a dye that uses metallic colorants. Transtint does not to my knowledge.
If I make a table top or something that will be exposed to sunlight the Lockwood is best. Color matching is not that hard. Use a medium brown and have some yellow, green and some red. A while back I started a debate here about primary colors and it went south in minutes but.. if you get those colors you will be able to move the colors in lots of directions with a simple color wheel from an art supplies shop.
Dan
Thanks! Unfortunately I did not order their metallic dyes, but I can do so.
I recommended Lockwood because they make a dye that uses metallic colorants. Transtint does not to my knowledge.FYI. All TransTint dyes are metal based. That property gives them better color fastness than the aniline based dyes. See the TransTint technical data sheet.
TransTint Liquid Dyes Store - Homestead Finishing Products
TransTint Liquid Dyes - Buy direct from the manufacturer with Free Shipping to USA!homesteadfinishingproducts.com
Here is the beginning of a table top. This is what some call a night table but it can go in several places in the house. It has some interest to most viewers as a result of careful bookmatching of the crotch section of the wood. If the builder does not match it just right it looses all of its magic.
The challenge is not over here when you simply address grain matching. The color of the walnut is much to dark if you just pour oil on the end grain. Decisions to make: bleach it back to lighten the browns and color the white sapwood.
I have a flash on this shot or it would be too dark. I started with some household chlorox bleach and it did not work very well. Next I tried some oxalic acid on the surface and it was just right. I did not want to loose too much of the brown, I wanted it less black.
Notice the brown at the top of the arches? It came along with some dye and a little artists oil colors to finish it up.
A little tiny bit of yellow on the brown and then a light coat of red dye to give the sapwood area a hint of redness. Again, all of the matching is done in sections. I do not dye the entire surface if I don't need to do that.
If you look in the "Resources" section of the site, you will see a few more photos of the table build.
later
The challenge is not over here when you simply address grain matching. The color of the walnut is much to dark if you just pour oil on the end grain. Decisions to make: bleach it back to lighten the browns and color the white sapwood.
I have a flash on this shot or it would be too dark. I started with some household chlorox bleach and it did not work very well. Next I tried some oxalic acid on the surface and it was just right. I did not want to loose too much of the brown, I wanted it less black.
Notice the brown at the top of the arches? It came along with some dye and a little artists oil colors to finish it up.
A little tiny bit of yellow on the brown and then a light coat of red dye to give the sapwood area a hint of redness. Again, all of the matching is done in sections. I do not dye the entire surface if I don't need to do that.
If you look in the "Resources" section of the site, you will see a few more photos of the table build.
later
That helps quite a bit. Thanks
Why did it go south? Too complicated or just little interest from the audience?
NO - you (Jeff) were arguing with him about the color wheel and when two colors were mixed, what the result was...
I think that it was Jeff Mill not me. I can't find the thread link so I don't know which Jeff was arguing.
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