Carving Tool(s) Question

[harpone]

View image in gallery​

I have started a project to make Celtic knot trivets for family members. The first (pictured) was cut from 1/2" Brazilian cherry using a scroll saw. Celtic knots have an over-and-under look. To simply mark or burn the lines still leaves a flat appearance. In trying to duplicate the rounded over-and-under look I variously used a carpenters chisel, a knife, sandpaper, rasps and a Dremel with sanding attachments. Besides being very time consuming, I am not entirely satisfied with the results. A finish-carpenter friend suggested a small wood carver's set might create the desired effect. If so, would I need all 5 plus chisels/gouges, etc that make up sets? It isn't like I am going into wood carving: I just want to improve the detail on some scroll saw and bandsaw projects. Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[PeteM]

For small projects I'd suggest the Little Shavers beginners set. Lots of stuff for $60.

http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

If you don't want the set you can do it with just the carving knife. It's pretty easy too round everything over. You just have to watch the grain direction.

I did the trivet on the bottom left with the little shavers kit:

pete

 

[Steve_Honeycutt]

The two approaches that I would use are:

1. I would first attempt a small sharp knife. I would make a stop cut and then relieve the area you want to go "under" down to the stop cut. The stop cut will prevent you from cutting away the piece that goes "over".

2. With the right bit, your Dremel should do the trick. I would use a straight diamond bit, ruby bit, or steel bit. These would allow you to cut up to your line and relieve the area quickly. The smoother the bit, the less sanding you will have to do afterward, but the longer it will take.

I would be surious to know how you solve this problem.

 

[CarvedTones]

Another thing to consider is using a file and/or sand paper to ease the corners all the way around. I mean to the point where it is almost an arc that is a little flat on top, not just corners that aren't sharp. It won't trick the eye as easily to just round it as it goes under/over and have most of it flat. I agree that it is probably knife work to get the best look where they cross.

 

[stave]

The best tool to get for this job is a flat chisel.. looks like 1/4 to 3/8". A gouge will not round over unless you use the inside which is difficult in your situation. Dremels will often not leave consistent work and are difficult to control with the rotation of the tool going into the grain. Unless you have a good cabintmakers file the marks will be tough to sand out.

Get a long handles chisel which will give you more control. Resharpen the tool with a longer bevel,at least 20 degrees or less. This will allow you to shave or pare the wood giving you more control. With a little practice you will be able to round over the edges and then hit lightly with 150 to 220 paper and it will be smooth. The secret is in the bevel, sharpness and making narrow cuts.

Good luck

Stave

 

[harpone]

The two approaches that I would use are:

1. I would first attempt a small sharp knife. I would make a stop cut and then relieve the area you want to go "under" down to the stop cut. The stop cut will prevent you from cutting away the piece that goes "over".

2. With the right bit, your Dremel should do the trick. I would use a straight diamond bit, ruby bit, or steel bit. These would allow you to cut up to your line and relieve the area quickly. The smoother the bit, the less sanding you will have to do afterward, but the longer it will take.

I would be surious to know how you solve this problem.

Thanks for the advice. What would you consider a "small knife"? I have one carving knife, a Murphy with a 1.75" blade.

 

[harpone]

Another thing to consider is using a file and/or sand paper to ease the corners all the way around. I mean to the point where it is almost an arc that is a little flat on top, not just corners that aren't sharp. It won't trick the eye as easily to just round it as it goes under/over and have most of it flat. I agree that it is probably knife work to get the best look where they cross.

Thanks for the advice. I did some file and sandpaper on the pictured trivet. I think the small clearances hampered the rounding process, I might have had better luck with something other than Brazilian cherry: that stuff is really hard.

 

[harpone]

The best tool to get for this job is a flat chisel.. looks like 1/4 to 3/8". A gouge will not round over unless you use the inside which is difficult in your situation. Dremels will often not leave consistent work and are difficult to control with the rotation of the tool going into the grain. Unless you have a good cabintmakers file the marks will be tough to sand out.

Get a long handles chisel which will give you more control. Resharpen the tool with a longer bevel,at least 20 degrees or less. This will allow you to shave or pare the wood giving you more control. With a little practice you will be able to round over the edges and then hit lightly with 150 to 220 paper and it will be smooth. The secret is in the bevel, sharpness and making narrow cuts.

Good luck

Stave

Thanks for the advice. I measured the trivet intertwines: they were 3/8" to 7/16" wide. Two questions: (1) what width chisel do you recommend? (2) what is the best way to resharpen to get a 20 degree or less bevel on the tool? I have two old (40 years?) Stanley chisels, 1/2" and 3/4" wide that are getting no use.

 

[stave]

You will probably have to use a grinder to change the bevels. Go slow and quench in cold water or oil. If the tool is hot to the touch then it needs to be quenched. A soft wheel with a fine grit combined with a light touch will do the job.

Draw a center line on the ropes as a guideline for carving and start with small bevel cuts until you you figure the grain out. The cherry if it is like American cherry will have a tendency to split.

Good luck
Stave

 

[CarvedTones]

Brazilian cherry: that stuff is really hard.

I missed that earlier. Yes it is hard. It will laugh at files and sandpaper. Make sure Stave understands that your are talking about this wood and not regular cherry and see if he recommends a different angle on the chisels or not.

 

[stave]

I have never carved that type of cherry before but if it is that extreme then start the bevel at 20 degrees and put an ever so slight bevel on the back side of the chisel. The idea is to slice through the wood instead of pushing the chisel through with brute force. I have carved hard woods that required the use of a light mallet in conjunction with the long bevel but even then small cuts and slicing action made the task a lot easier.
On some woods the oils or silica in the wood just causes the tool to drag, some woods are just plain hard. I prefer to finesse my way through rather than bulldog it. Requires patience but also avoids costly mistakes.

Stave

 

[harpone]

For small projects I'd suggest the Little Shavers beginners set. Lots of stuff for $60.

http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

If you don't want the set you can do it with just the carving knife. It's pretty easy too round everything over. You just have to watch the grain direction.

I did the trivet on the bottom left with the little shavers kit:

pete

I meant to compliment you on the scroll saw work: very nice. Where did you find the patterns?

 

[harpone]

I have never carved that type of cherry before but if it is that extreme then start the bevel at 20 degrees and put an ever so slight bevel on the back side of the chisel. The idea is to slice through the wood instead of pushing the chisel through with brute force. I have carved hard woods that required the use of a light mallet in conjunction with the long bevel but even then small cuts and slicing action made the task a lot easier.
On some woods the oils or silica in the wood just causes the tool to drag, some woods are just plain hard. I prefer to finesse my way through rather than bulldog it. Requires patience but also avoids costly mistakes.

Stave

As soon as I get my chisel beveled to your suggested angle I am going to cut another Celtic Knot. This time I will use walnut and save the cherry for other projects. Thanks again for your help.

 

[CarvedTones]

Thanks for the advice. What would you consider a "small knife"? I have one carving knife, a Murphy with a 1.75" blade.

Anything smaller than this... :rolf:

I think a blade under 2" will be fine. Have a 1" blade is nice for really fine detail. A clearly defined bevel is helpful to keep from accidentally digging in and chipping. I have a single bevel knife I like for detail. Stave's chisel idea is good also. I would look for a carving video or picture tutorial of someone using a chisel or gouge for detail. You want one hand on the handle and one on the shaft near (but not in front of) the blade, elbows in opposite directions like you are cradling a baby. Bevel down. Crazy thing about carving though - others may come along and tell you a completely different technique and they are right too. You have to find out what works for you.

EDIT - I just told you to go searching around on the web for a picture of a guy using a chisel to round something on a carving with hands and elbows in a particular orientation. Hmmm... Where I have seen a picture like that? :icon_scra :eusa_thin :eusa_doh: Look to your left at my avatar. My technique is off a little as I am posing for the camera (it's my Roy Underhill picture; you can't see him because he took the picture ) but that is the general idea...

 

[harpone]

The two approaches that I would use are:

1. I would first attempt a small sharp knife. I would make a stop cut and then relieve the area you want to go "under" down to the stop cut. The stop cut will prevent you from cutting away the piece that goes "over".

2. With the right bit, your Dremel should do the trick. I would use a straight diamond bit, ruby bit, or steel bit. These would allow you to cut up to your line and relieve the area quickly. The smoother the bit, the less sanding you will have to do afterward, but the longer it will take.

I would be surious to know how you solve this problem.

Thanks to an error in tracing a pattern I have a Celtic knot to practice on. I did a stop cut with a sharp knife and ground an old chisel to approximately 20 degrees. Using the chisel I am achieving a rounding effect. I may finish up with the Dremel. The piece is walnut which is so much easier to use than the cherry.

 

[harpone]

Anything smaller than this... :rolf:

I think a blade under 2" will be fine. Have a 1" blade is nice for really fine detail. A clearly defined bevel is helpful to keep from accidentally digging in and chipping. I have a single bevel knife I like for detail. Stave's chisel idea is good also. I would look for a carving video or picture tutorial of someone using a chisel or gouge for detail. You want one hand on the handle and one on the shaft near (but not in front of) the blade, elbows in opposite directions like you are cradling a baby. Bevel down. Crazy thing about carving though - others may come along and tell you a completely different technique and they are right too. You have to find out what works for you.

EDIT - I just told you to go searching around on the web for a picture of a guy using a chisel to round something on a carving with hands and elbows in a particular orientation. Hmmm... Where I have seen a picture like that? :icon_scra :eusa_thin :eusa_doh: Look to your left at my avatar. My technique is off a little as I am posing for the camera (it's my Roy Underhill picture; you can't see him because he took the picture ) but that is the general idea...

Thanks for the tips and graphic on holding a chisel. I have started working on a scrap celtic knot using a sharp knife (stop cut) and 20 degree chisel (rounding). So far so good.

 

[PeteM]

Where did you find the patterns?

Send an email to me: petemohr@gmail.com and I'll send you the answer :wink_smil

BTW: Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) has nothing in common with good 'ol American Cherry.
American Cherry is much easier to carve.

pete