Carving tool recommendations

[MikeL]

I will be participating in a TWA workshop this weekend on decorative carving for furniture. Paul Rolfe will be instructing, and I am looking forward to learning about yet another slippery slope.

My question is which carving tools would you recommend acquiring as a "basic" set. There are so many different chisels for carving, and each type has numerous sizing options. Like most quality tools, they aint cheap. So how do you narrow the selection down? Are there 6 to 8 tools that allow you to tackle the majority of projects one would be looking at while learning? I was told that the packaged beginner sets usually include things that may be critical. I've seen this before with other woodworking related kits.

Also, for the carvers here, have you seen any recent deals out there for individual tools?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Phil S]

I think I got you covered PM Sent

 

[ScottM]

I wish I could make that class. The preview was very interesting. Paul is a master carver. I would ask him the same question. I have heard mention of this set many times and many places but I do not have this set YET.

http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

 

[PeteM]

I have heard mention of this set many times and many places but I do not have this set YET.

http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

I have that set and is is an excellent choice if you want to do small carvings like woodchuck
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/DCP01067.JPG

However, I wouldn't recommend it for furniture carving. I also have a set of 17 Flexcut gouges. I like them but most people prefer the more traditional styles. I have a list of recommended sets by all the carving Gurus and each one is quite different. It comes down to the type of carving you will be doing and personal preference. That being said, most everyone agrees that the Phiel tools from Woodcraft are a good value (except for the V tool).

pete

 

[MikeL]

Thanks everyone. Phil, thank you for the PM. Scott, I will consult with Paul for sure but figured that I would "ask the audience" for their insight. I guess this is a tough weekend to schedule any 2 day event for the Dads out there. It should be a great workshop. Pete, I will check out your links now and appreciate the info!

 

[ScottM]

Mike let us all know what you come up with. I am sure others would appreciate it.

 

[CarvedTones]

I am late to this party, but if I had to put together the absolute most basic set for decorative stuff, it would be a light round mallet, a V tool and a low sweep 6mm gouge. Then add a straight chisel, medium sweep 6mm gouge and veiner in that order and then various gouges as needed. That's me, though. I am one of those guys than lays out a bunch of tools and then uses 3 of them for the whole project and one ofthem (that low sweep 6mm) for about 90% of it.

EDIT - PS, the see through sharpening option on WorkSharps makes honing gouges easier than anything else I have tried. You use a marker on the bevel and look through the spinning disc as you sharpen the gouge, making sure it is taking the marker off as you turn it so that you hone the bevel wih perfect orientation to the surface.

 

[PeteM]

I found my list of "recommended starter sets" and posted it here for download.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=230

Take your pick :dontknow:

pete

 

[CarvedTones]

Wow, those guys recommend some pretty extensive sets. It would be nice to see them do prioritized and/or project type lists. Most of my carving tools never see the light of day. BTW, I agree about the Pfiel tools at Woodcraft being very good.

That's my 3-30; I use it in a lot of situations where a straight chisel might be preferred because it is far easier to pull out of a dive without and splitting if it starts following grain. Nice curly shaving, but most any sharp tool can do that, right? That's a piece of hickory, not basswood.

 

[MikeL]

Wow, those guys recommend some pretty extensive sets.

You aren't kidding Andy, but I do appreciate how specific they were with their lists. And you were not late btw, I was going to complete the workshop and consult with Paul before making any purchases. Thanks for the info! I'll update this after the workshop.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Mike - Since you're taking Paul's class, you've no doubt already heard this, but Paul does not recommend buying "sets" of tools. I was an apprentice of Paul's for a couple of years, so I've at least a little experience with carving, and I have to agree.

For example, most "beginner" sets include straight, flat chisels - at least one. These are absolutely required for one very specialized area of carving - lettering (as in carving signs). Otherwise, they will likely never make it out of the tool roll.

The best advice is to start by buying 4 or 5 tools that fit with what you wish to do, and then buy tools as you need them. What those 4 or 5 tools are depends on what you're interested in doing. For furniture carving, most of the work is relief carving, with the specialized activity of carving "in the round" for ball and claw feet. For this purpose, a v-tool (at least one) is really necessary, as is a fairly wide, shallow sweep gouge to flatten the background (generally a #2 sweep in the Swiss system), a fairly steeply swept "quick" gouge to remove waste from the background quickly, and a small selection of intermediate sweep, medium-sized gouges that are used to stab in the design, and model the carving after the design is outlined (the v-tool), set in (the intermediate sweep gouges), the background relieved and smoothed (the quick gouge and the #2).

Most of us that have been doing this for a while own at least 40 carving tools, but that is principally because we've taken up carving many different things in different scales (little carvings need little tools - big ones need big tools) and styles. For a beginner, 4 or 5 tools specifically associated with what you wish to carve will be more than sufficient to learn quite a lot. It certainly won't be quite as efficient as having a lot of tools, but then again few of us are all that efficient when we first start.

 

[froglips]

Wow, thats great advice. Now I see why there are a gazillion carving chisels on the market.

I look forward to hearing how the class went and what tools you bought.

Jim

 

[MikeL]

Day one of the workshop was a blast. Paul Rolfe is a great teacher, and Cris Rogers was there to share his knowledge as well. I was amazed at how much we learned today. At my snail's pace I know that I will not have a finished piece by tomorrow, but I am very pleased with my results thus far. Paul offered to let me take the tool roll home for extra hours, but my hands were aching when I left the store. I'm working on a remedy for that right now. ccasion1

David, you were right about the advice against purchasing a beginner kit. Today we primarily used 4 tools. Paul said that we will end up using 8-10 total for this project. I think that if I can get 5 or 6 tools, I'll have enough to learn the basics with. I am hoping that my dog will come through bigtime on Father's Day tomorrow! :eusa_pray

On a serious note: Taking these types of workshops always increases the respect that I have for the craftsman that had to work in this manner in the past and for those who continue to keep the crafts alive for new generations to learn and enjoy.

More to follow after tomorrow's adventure...

 

[dkeller_nc]

Mike - My post here is probably a bit late for you to act on this advice, but if Cris attends today, take a careful look at his tool box. Myself and others in Paul's apprenticeship class winced a little at the orientation (they're straight up and down, with the edges pointing up!), but there is absolutely no arguing with the efficiency of his method.

Anyway, what I think you will find if you look at his tool kit is that there isn't a "series" of anything in there. He purchased the tools to do specific jobs - and he did it the right way. Many of his tools are ground differently from the way they were made at the factory - again, for specific jobs.

 

[MikeL]

Well, day 2 of the workshop has come and gone. :cry_smile Today's lesson was only half as long (1-5pm) but we covered a lot of ground. I highly recommend this workshop, or a similar class offering by Paul, if you want to test the waters of woodcarving. We worked on a Newport Shell mirror frame (photos will have to wait). As predicted I did not finish the project and truth be told I am less than halfway done. It's a good thing that my slow speed did not affect the enjoyment that I got out of the experience. I walked away wanting to continue working on this project and to learn more about carving. I plan on attending Paul's apprenticeship class time on Thursday to keep the ball rolling.

I purchased a few carving tools to get me started (all of which I used today on the Newport Shell project). They include: a 3-10mm, 9-8mm, 9-25mm, 56-10mm, and a 47-4mm V tool. I've already seen why those who get serious about carving have such a variety. Paul and Cris both shared some tips on getting by with a select few. I will post some photos later on. Thanks for reading this far! :icon_thum

 

[CarvedTones]

Interesting selection; my guess is that 9-8 will become a general "go to" tool for you for tight work and a 3-10 is the tool I wish I had when I use a 1/2" chisel on something that didn't to be perfectly square and then have it do a little collateral damage. Did you get a mallet?

 

[CohibaCris]

First off - Mike, it was great meeting you and I enjoyed the class as well - there never is a bad time to carve IMO.
On the gouges, the only thoughts I can offer beyond what's been said are to make the attempt to purchase/acquire tools with the greatest variety of profiles in the beginning. The spread you picked up (#3 - almost flat,slight curvature; #9 - very deep,highly curved gouge; and the #6 {56} that's in between the first two) is very wise. By getting the variety, you can accomplish a great deal before you 'have to' invest in more tools...
Because quality tools are expensive, most of us can't lay down $3-4K for a moderately complete set of tools in one shot. We can however chip away (pun intended) at the needs our projects present and end up with what we need over time.

 

[MikeL]

Andy, I did get a 12oz urethane mallet. If I end up needing a heavier mallet, I will make one. Paul said that this was the mallet that he used for the majority of his work. That was a good enough endorsement for me.

Cris, I'm glad that you found this post. The selection of tools was chosen by Paul (cannot take any credit for that one). I thought that it was really helpful having you there with us. This man has a serious box o' tools for carving. I also love that MC Escher carving.

 

[CarvedTones]

Mike,

Of course you realize that none of this ever happened unless you get pics up. :gar-Bi

I want a urethane mallet. Most of the time I use an undersized hard maple one I turned . I made it to teach the kids with and found that I rarely if ever need more power and my larger mallet is a block head.

 

[CohibaCris]

Quick add on - external links/resources
Here is a catalog from Stubai (available at Klingspors in Raleigh) that are very well made carving tools.
http://stubai.com/pdfs/stubai-de-schnitz-poliert-55.pdf

You can also look at the Woodcraft imported brand Pfiel (swiss made) gouges and chisels here:
http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=39

Either article should show the profiles adequately to confuse the heck out of you and send your head spinning (or give you an idea of what you'd need to look at the next time you're buying carving tools).