After reading FWW#223 "Tools & Shops Annual Issue" I have become very interested in upgrading my 20" North State "4-post" planer. Fine Woodworking likes the Byrd cutter head but I have read mixed commentary at Woodweb so I thought I would inquire here. Anyone using Byrd Tool Shelix? I'd love to hear from you... either pro or con or both. Thanks.
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John, I don't have the shelix head, but I did want to welcome you to this great site. We'd love to hear more about you and your woodworking. Would you mind going to the "Who We Are" forum and introducing yourself. And pics are always appreciated. :gar-Bi
Bill
Bill
John, I purchased a Grizzly 15" planer 3 years ago with the Byrd Shelix head. I liked it so well I immediately installed a Byrd head in my 8" Delta jointer. I am not a production shop, but there has been a lot of material through both machines. I use a lot of bloodwood, purpleheart, etc. which are "hard". These woods have a Janka hardness of 2300 - 2900. Oak has a JH of 1360 for comparison. The cutters in these machines are still on the first (of 4) cutting edge. I figure I will turn all cutters in a year or two ( just for the herck of it). That means five years from one edge, times 4 edges = 20 years from a set of cutters. I can buy the cutters @ $2 each. That's $148 for 20 years of knives, or $7.40 a year. Can't do that with a straight knife machine. I can push a board across the jointer without holding it down to the bed. The cutting action actually pulls the board tight to the bed. I don't procees wood this way, but I do it to show someone how it works. When pushing a board across a straight knife machine the knives try to kick the board up. I have seen comments that the Byrd Head leaves ridges. I have yet to see any.
I am not one to be told what or how to do things, such as the Govt. trying to have SawStop type safety systems installed on all table saws. But, I think that the Byrd Shelix works so well, that all machines with cutterheads should come standard with Shelix. I have not seen/used a machine with the "spiral" cutterhead, ie., Grizzly, but I have heard they perform close to the Byrd and much better than the straight knives.
This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I wish you were closer, I would let you do a test run.
Charlie
I am not one to be told what or how to do things, such as the Govt. trying to have SawStop type safety systems installed on all table saws. But, I think that the Byrd Shelix works so well, that all machines with cutterheads should come standard with Shelix. I have not seen/used a machine with the "spiral" cutterhead, ie., Grizzly, but I have heard they perform close to the Byrd and much better than the straight knives.
This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I wish you were closer, I would let you do a test run.
Charlie
Charlie:
Thanks for your fast reply. This is precisely the kind of feedback I am looking for. While I am not expecting to spray finish right off the machine I have worried about the scalloped ridges reported by so many users of the Byrd head. None of us likes to sand more than we have to and even fewer want to run out and buy a widebelt to compensate for what the planer hath wrought. I tend to work with highly figured woods... especially maple... and it gets increasingly expensive and time consuming to farm out dimensioning material to shops and friends who do own large widebelt machines.
Do you feel that stock off the machine requires more or less sanding than a straight knife planer? RO sander or stationary machine (drum, belt)? Apologies for my questions but a $1200 upgrade to a $1500 planer has me a little skittish.
John
Thanks for your fast reply. This is precisely the kind of feedback I am looking for. While I am not expecting to spray finish right off the machine I have worried about the scalloped ridges reported by so many users of the Byrd head. None of us likes to sand more than we have to and even fewer want to run out and buy a widebelt to compensate for what the planer hath wrought. I tend to work with highly figured woods... especially maple... and it gets increasingly expensive and time consuming to farm out dimensioning material to shops and friends who do own large widebelt machines.
Do you feel that stock off the machine requires more or less sanding than a straight knife planer? RO sander or stationary machine (drum, belt)? Apologies for my questions but a $1200 upgrade to a $1500 planer has me a little skittish.
John
John - if you do alot of figured grain (i.e. "crazy grain") then the Shelix or other spiral is the way to go. With straight knives, no matter how your run the workpiece through, there always is some grain tearout (DAMHIKT!) The shelix/spiral heads greatly reduce if not eliminate tearout.
My next planer purchase will definitely have a spiral cutter head.
C.
John, As Sully stated, a quick hit with th ROS is all that is required, if that. My son made 4 poplar raised panel doors today which will be painted. He hit the stile/rail joints with the ROS and they are ready to paint. Far less sanding required than with straight knives. I too use a lot of hard maple (one of my most favorite woods) and it looks like glass out of the planer. Many people won't use hard maple because of tearout, etc. I recently ran some birdseye maple and zero tearout. Be careful though, if you do convert your planer to Byrd you will also convert any other staright knife machines that you have. It can get expensive :gar-La;
I can't speak to the changeover aspect.
I just replaced a Ridgid R4330 portable planer with a Grizzly G0453PX with a (Grizzly) spiral cutterhead. I have had no problems with scalloped edges, grooves, stripes, etc. on any of the work that I have sent through so far.
Boards from the Ridgid planer had to be ROS sanded with (at least) 120, 180, 240 to get a smooth enough surface for finish. And that is if there was no significant tearout. Boards from the Grizzly can be ROS sanded using just the 240 grit. I have not seen any tearout at all on anything that I have planed with the Grizzly. Caveat: this is a new machine with new, sharp cutters, and I am comparing an industrial grade machine to a hobbyist grade machine.
One other thing to consider is the noise level. The spiral cutterheads do their work much more quietly than their straight bladed counterparts.
I just replaced a Ridgid R4330 portable planer with a Grizzly G0453PX with a (Grizzly) spiral cutterhead. I have had no problems with scalloped edges, grooves, stripes, etc. on any of the work that I have sent through so far.
Boards from the Ridgid planer had to be ROS sanded with (at least) 120, 180, 240 to get a smooth enough surface for finish. And that is if there was no significant tearout. Boards from the Grizzly can be ROS sanded using just the 240 grit. I have not seen any tearout at all on anything that I have planed with the Grizzly. Caveat: this is a new machine with new, sharp cutters, and I am comparing an industrial grade machine to a hobbyist grade machine.
One other thing to consider is the noise level. The spiral cutterheads do their work much more quietly than their straight bladed counterparts.
The current Fine Woodworking online has a great article on segmented cutterheads. There's also a recent forum on Lumberjocks specifically addressing the retrofits. These were enough to push me over the edge this morning when I ordered my Byrd-Shelix 15" cutterhead. I am a bit nervous about the installation. I know almost nothing about chains, pulleys, and gears! We'll see how it goes.
I have a 15" Grizzly planer with a spiral head as well as a 6" Grizzly jointer with a spiral head and can attest to the performance aspects. The jointer is on its last edge after 1 1/2 years and the planer is still on its first edge after a year. (I have put off changing the planer inserts since it is a little harder to do so.) The planer is leaving some lines so it needs to have the inserts turned. Even though it needs turning, the sanding required is not that severe. I don't know how much hard maple I have run through each machine but I would hazard a guess it is in the 2500+ bd ft range. Then I can add mahogany, cherry and walnut which will bring the total closer to 4000+ bd ft.
I can't speak about the Byrd heads, but if they are as good as the spiral heads that came with the Grizzly machines, then they will be worth every penny and minute required to change them out.
I can't speak about the Byrd heads, but if they are as good as the spiral heads that came with the Grizzly machines, then they will be worth every penny and minute required to change them out.
John,
I can't comment yet, but I just picked up a used Dewalt 735 for which I intend to buy a Byrd head. OK, that's just a shameless gloat!:gar-Bi
Actually, the guy I bought it from had just purchased a Jet jointer/planer with a Bryd head. He showed me some curly maple that he had planed. Zero tearout in the few boards I looked at. Of course, the one board on which we tested the 735 also looked great.
I can't comment yet, but I just picked up a used Dewalt 735 for which I intend to buy a Byrd head. OK, that's just a shameless gloat!:gar-Bi
Actually, the guy I bought it from had just purchased a Jet jointer/planer with a Bryd head. He showed me some curly maple that he had planed. Zero tearout in the few boards I looked at. Of course, the one board on which we tested the 735 also looked great.
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