Wiring questions for Niche above fireplace

[lottathought]

Well I purchased my first HDTV. :icon_cheers
It is the Samsung LCD TV and I am now working to get it set up.
It will be going above the vent-less, gas fireplace.

I already have worked out a good way to mount the TV over the hole.
What I have not been able to figure out is how to run the wires behind the fireplace down to the crawl space under the house.
This might be an easy job…..might also be a hard job.

I have no idea since I have never seen anybody run a cable behind a fireplace.
I am guessing that since a gas fireplace is fairly common, that there is some standard trick to getting wires run behind it.
I already have the power outlet in the niche. What I need to run is some fiber, an Ethernet cable, some coax and my HDMI cables.

I have searched everywhere I know and I can not get a good how-to on this.
I know it is possible because they ran some wires for me right before I moved in and after the house was built.

If it helps..this is a ranch style house.
The fireplace is on an outer-wall and that section of the wall sits farther out than the rest of the wall when you look at it from outside.

I have run a few wires in the past..but this one is throwing me.



BTW…., I have heard all about the viewing angle and the heat from the fireplace.
As an answer to this…
My house is 4 years old. My fireplace has never been lit.
Due to the fact that they do not run gas in my area and the tank seller in the area is insane, I do not know if it ever will be lit while I live there.
As for the viewing angle……due to windows and piano, this is the only possible place in the room to put this TV.

 

[sediener]

I've got the same problem coming up...

Can you run them up the side of the fireplace and then shoot over?

- Steve

 

[lottathought]

Maybe....
I know this...
The contractor ran wires when I bought the house and the wall had already been finished. He ran them into the back of the cubby hole (niche).
I took from this that this is how they are supposed to be run.
They go into the wall there and then come out under the house.
I am considering cutting a hole in the wall and trying to get a fishtape in there.

I am not eager to just start pulling wires through there though as that Toslink cable and that HDMI cable are fairly pricey.
I do not want start ripping the connectors off those by doing this incorrectly.
I also am a little dumbfounded how they pulled this when this part of the wall hangs out past the brick foundation.

I would take a pic to show what I am talking about but I can not get to the hole to show it until my brother comes over and we get that 36" CRT out of there... :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

 

[sediener]

Maybe....
I know this...
The contractor ran wires when I bought the house and the wall had already been finished. He ran them into the back of the cubby hole (niche).
I took from this that this is how they are supposed to be run.
They go into the wall there and then come out under the house.
I am considering cutting a hole in the wall and trying to get a fishtape in there.

I am not eager to just start pulling wires through there though as that Toslink cable and that HDMI cable are fairly pricey.
I do not want start ripping the connectors off those by doing this incorrectly.
I also am a little dumbfounded how they pulled this when this part of the wall hangs out past the brick foundation.

I would take a pic to show what I am talking about but I can not get to the hole to show it until my brother comes over and we get that 36" CRT out of there... :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

I think I have the exact same setup... I was considering cutting out a hole in the back wall, drilling an oversized hole under house where I want it to come out, running the fishtape up and then pulling all wires through in a bunch heavily taped to protect the ends. I think there is a good bit of dead space behind the fireplace which should be pretty easy to navigate. Once you hit the back wall, hopefully the studs will guide it up pretty easily.

- Steve

 

[JimD]

I have a similar arrangement but had the advantage of access during the house construction. My fireplace also sits out into the room with built-ins on either side. On the right the built-ins house the DVD players (2), receiver, etc.. I put a conduit between the right hand built-in and the TV box above the fireplace. That lets me change things later if I want. The electricity comes through an extension cord in the conduit.

If you can remove whatever is on the sides of the fireplace inside it is probably the best way to gain access assuming the outside is brick. If it is siding, I would remove the siding to gain access. It would be best to run the wires in a conduit secured to the brick or framing so it doesn't get too close to the firebox.

Jim

 

[lottathought]

Jim..you and Steve both seem to be suggesting that I need to run the cables outside.

Does it mean that this is really hard to run cables in that wall behind the fireplace?

Like I said, I know that other cables were run like I want just before I bought the house. I do not know how much trouble the contractor had or if he had special tools..or even if he had to take apart the outside wall.

 

[sediener]

Jim..you and Steve both seem to be suggesting that I need to run the cables outside.

Does it mean that this is really hard to run cables in that wall behind the fireplace?

Like I said, I know that other cables were run like I want just before I bought the house. I do not know how much trouble the contractor had or if he had special tools..or even if he had to take apart the outside wall.

I didn't mean to run things outside, just cut an outlet sized hole in the back of the cubby and then push the fishtape from the bottom instead of the other way around. Not sure of the heat issues. That's something I am still wondering about. I think the only tools they had were a fishtape and some patience. You should be able to get it done that way just may take a little time to get the tape where you want it.

 

[Gotcha6]

Try & find yourselve(s) some Carlon flexible PVC conduit big enough to carry your cables. It's called 'Smurf tube' in the electrical trade. Drill a hole big enough to push it into from above & then try & catch it with a fish tape or stiff wire from below. Once you have both ends secured you can then push your wires though it or pull with a fish tape depending on the circumstances.

 

[Glennbear]

I don't have a solution but just a couple thoughts. If we are talking exterior wall you have to contend with insulation in the cavity and possible damage to the vapor barrier facing when you go spelunking with the fish tape. I mounted speakers for my home theatre using surface mount conduit eliminating the need to go wall fishing. Wiremold company makes surface mount conduit. I ran a vent free gas fireplace (free standing) against an interior wall in my last house using the manufacturer's recommended rear spacing and never had a wall warming issue YMMV. :wsmile:

 

[Glennbear]

Try & find yourselve(s) some Carlon flexible PVC conduit big enough to carry your cables. It's called 'Smurf tube' in the electrical trade. Drill a hole big enough to push it into from above & then try & catch it with a fish tape or stiff wire from below. Once you have both ends secured you can then push your wires though it or pull with a fish tape depending on the circumstances.

If you do go inside the wall, I agree with Dennis that this would be the best setup, it is available in various diameters at the BORGs :wsmile:

 

[nelsone]

Most of the gas inserts have a lot of open space around them. If you are somewhat ambitious and comfortable with sheetrock work, it wouldn't be a bad idea to cut a "window in the wall to see what you're doing. Save your cutout and patch it back it when you're done. A little mud and paint and you won't even know you took it out!

 

[lottathought]

Thanks guys....
Ed, I think I am going to cut out some sheetrock and have a look.
Hey...if I can not get sheetrock back in, it might be a good idea to pack the tablesaw up. :gar-La;
And I am thinking that when I do get it figured out, a smurf pipe is highly in order..
The sad thing is that I thought I had handled this problem when I bought the house.
I had extra coax and standard wires run and just sitting there.
I had no idea that I would have needed fiber and HDMI cables.

 

[sediener]

Next time you know to have them run a nice fat smurf pipe for you...

 

[mkepke]

Going slightly off-topic...may I recommend that you use a piece of cardboard or something similar to see if above-the-fireplace-placement is really what you want ?

It looks good in the magazines but is usually too high to make for comfortable viewing while seated. Ideally eyes should be about level with the middle of the screen when you're in the preferred viewing position.

I know several people, myself included, that started out locating their flat-panel TVs too high on the wall.

-Mark

 

[lottathought]

Going slightly off-topic...may I recommend that you use a piece of cardboard or something similar to see if above-the-fireplace-placement is really what you want ?

It looks good in the magazines but is usually too high to make for comfortable viewing while seated. Ideally eyes should be about level with the middle of the screen when you're in the preferred viewing position.

I know several people, myself included, that started out locating their flat-panel TVs too high on the wall.

-Mark

Thanks Mark...but I think it will be fine.
The old CRT has been ok to view in the hole.
At least this can be slightly angled down. The CRT was straight out.
And like I said..this is the only viable place in the room.

 

[Travis Porter]

I used to do this kind of stuff in a previous life. Fishing walls, floors, ceilings, even carpet to run telephone cable.

There is no "standard". It all depends on how the thing was built, if there is space, if there are cross members in the wall, etc, etc, etc.

My suggestion is this. If there is already wire in the walls that someone did after the fact, trace it. Get the flash lights out, get to looking and go from there. If there is a hole already (as long it does not have electrical wire in it), get your fish tape or something that is long and stiff like a fiber glass wall fishing pole and push it up and start rattling around. If it does have electrical wire in it, drill a hole say 6" away from it and use that. I would not run low voltage stuff in the same holes as electrical. Note where nails are so you can avoid studs. Have someone up above put their ears and hands on the walls/area and see if they can feel it or tell where it is. This is a two person job in figuring out how to do it.

If all else fails, cut a hole in the wall above the fire place where you want the wires to come out big enough to put an after the fact electrical box in and look in and see what you can see with your flash light. Best case you find it, worst case you put an after the fact box in with a cover plate or patch the wall.

 

[chris99z71]

FWIW, try www.monoprice.com for cables. They're absurdly cheap, their shipping is reasonable (and quick), and they warranty everything they sell for life. I've ordered HDMI, Toslink and USB cables from them without issue.

 

[lottathought]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks Chris,
In fact I did order my cables from Monoprice.
Not only are these cables very cheap, they are some of the best quality cables I ever owned.


Well..the TV is wired in. :eusa_danc:eusa_danc:eusa_danc
I decided to trace the wiring from the contractors to figure out how this was done.
For those who are looking to do this...this was actually pretty easy.
At least the way my wall is run it was. :icon_thum

Pop off the strip of siding where the wire will be poked through the wall.
Drill the hole and run one end of the cable into it with a Fish tape.
(Make sure you leave enough slack on the inside so that the cables can be connected with the TV off the wall)

Then, once one end of all the cables are run into the TV niche, from the outside, run the cables sideways until you get to the corner that is holding the vinyl siding ends down.. (It turns out that the corner strips are hollow and have a lot of room. )
Fish the cables down the hollow corner with the fish tape.)
Next.....take out the bottom pieces of vinyl siding from under the wall extension for the fireplace. They should be pretty easy to get out.
You will now see the floorjoice and insulation sitting on top of the brick foundation. That entire area between the floorjoice is just open space.
Just run the cables under the house via this space...
Crawl under the house and run the cables the rest of the way.

Pop the strips of vinyl siding back on.....pretty easy to do as there is a pretty good amount [/FONT]of space in between the vinyl and wall.

 

[Glennbear]

Congratulations Michael, I am glad it was not as complicated as it had seemed before you started :wsmile:

 

[Travis Porter]

Glad it worked out for you!