What's the secret to cutting beads?

[scsmith42]

Whenever I attempt to cut a 1/4" wide bead using a Crown beading tool, typically when I'm 95% complete the middle portion of the bead will lose a few chunks of wood.

Materials that this has occured in include oak, walnut, and sycamore.

Obviously it is operator error; what am I doing wrong?

Thx.

Scott

 

[manfre]

Does this happen less after freshly sharpening the tool? How close is the tool rest to the wood when it catches? I cut beads with a skew, but tend to have more catches when the tool is dull and when I change the tool angle due to the rest being far from the wood.

 

[CarvedTones]

Are you rolling the tool as you go in? I usually use the skew or Spindle Master and with the Spindle master I roll it to almost sideways. Is it the face you are cutting down or (what I suspect as it sometimes happens to me) the other face catching the far edge of the tool? Rolling and lifting your back hand slightly helps with the latter problem.

 

[scsmith42]

Manfre, the tool is brand new and thus very sharp.

Andy, I haven't been rolling the tool, that may be what my problem is.

The tool rest is fairly close, about 1/2" or less away from the workpiece.

 

[Rob]

I've never used a special tool for beading, I've either used my skew or my spindle gouge.

 

[CarvedTones]

Scott,

About 45 seconds or so into this video you can see what I mean by rolling and lifting. He does it all through the video, but that is the first really obvious (to me) spot.

 

[scsmith42]

Andy, that was very insightful.

The beading tool that I have looks like this:

I'm not sure that a tool like this is designed to be rolled...

 

[CarvedTones]

So does it make that exact profile only? Do you just push it in as a scraper?
I think that a gouge is the easiest thing to do beads and coves with but a skew leaves a better surface and is far more exciting if things go wrong. The Sorby Spindle Master, which I use a lot for this, is kind of a b__t__d child of the skew and gouge.

 

[Rob]

That is basically a scraper, and sorry, I don't have any insight to keeping the tear out down, other then don't complete the full bead, use sand paper to finish it?

 

[Russ Denz]

Scott,
I, too, use one of those tools for some beads and have discovered (in a video I think) that ROLLING is a recommended method. Not "rolling" as you would with a skew or other spindle gouges, but rather a side-to-side swinging of the tool handle, which "rolls" the tool on its own axis, alternately cutting with the right and left point of the tool - make sense?? Works for me; give it a try.

Also, I don't think it's safe to assume a new tool is sharp, and your beading tool is really easy to sharpen. Simply hone the cutting side of the tool on a dead flat stone, same as if you were doing the back of a chisel or plane iron - very fine grit is all you need and you're good to go.

I hope this is helpful to you. It's amazing...I know so little, but you just happened on to one thing I do know - thanks!! Good luck.
Russ

 

[scsmith42]

Thanks all for the advice; I'll give the rolling techniques a try tonight.

Regarding honing, I have some diamond hones for sharpening mortising chisel bits that should get down in the tight areas, so I'll give them a try.

 

[Mike Davis]

If I read your statement correctly, you intend to sharpen the inner curve part of the scrapper. Do not try that, only flatten the top surface of the tool. This will improve the cutting without changing the profile of the cutter.

 

[woodArtz]

I use the tool you show here Scott. As Rob indicates, it is just a glorified scraper. I have to use a very light touch and leave a bit of finishing for the sandpaper. I usually present the tool at a slightly downward cant by raising the tool support. This provides a negative rake angle and lessens the tearout. Also, sharpening as Mike indicates helps create a slight burr. Even after all that, I occasionally get tearout. Thus, in tearout prone wood I will bead with a detail gouge or a skew.

 

[bob vaughan]

I did some experimenting with profiled scrapers like that, but that was years before Crown ever thought about making turning tools for the US.

I found that a profiled tool wouldn't really scrape the needed profile because the moment the tool made full contact with the wood across its profile, tearout and chipping would almost certainly happen. On the beads, I found that moving the tool side to side and never letting it make full contact helped avoid the chipping.

Eventually I gave up and finally learned how to sharpen and cut instead of scrape. If that tool is made of HSS, and I think it is, it can be sharpened into a dandy little detail skew.

 

[CaptnA]

Scott I have never tried one of those but have wondered about how they work.
I use a skew. The rolling works well for me.
You said oak, walnut, and sycamore. Have you had issues with other woods?
Oak can be cantankerous, walnut I've had little problem with, and sycamore I've had very little experience with.
Oak can chip if the wind blow, and more so if it doesn't! Maybe a little ca while you are turning? I use a lot on pens with some woods like punky maple.

 

[scsmith42]

Scott I have never tried one of those but have wondered about how they work.
I use a skew. The rolling works well for me.
You said oak, walnut, and sycamore. Have you had issues with other woods?
Oak can be cantankerous, walnut I've had little problem with, and sycamore I've had very little experience with.
Oak can chip if the wind blow, and more so if it doesn't! Maybe a little ca while you are turning? I use a lot on pens with some woods like punky maple.

Andrew, I haven't done much turning, but basically I've experienced problems with every wood that I tried.

Bob's post pretty much sums up what happens; I'll give the rolling approach a try later today.

Thx.

SS

 

[Makinsawdust]

Scott,
I've got the Sorby version of that tool and I too have gotten pretty much the same result. To improve the result remove most of the material with a skew. Basically, rough the bead with a skew and then finish it with the beading tool.
Rob

 

[CarvedTones]

Rob,

With all due respect, IME a skew can leave the best surface of any turning tool; one that needs no sanding. It can also plow furrows if your technique is off (DAMHIKT ). If you can get the hang of cutting beads with it, why follow with a scraper that leaves a rougher surface? I understand using a profile scraper to avoid using the skew or maybe using it after a gouge, but I don't understand using it after the skew.

 

[scsmith42]

Rob,

With all due respect, IME a skew can leave the best surface of any turning tool; one that needs no sanding. It can also plow furrows if your technique is off (DAMHIKT ). If you can get the hang of cutting beads with it, why follow with a scraper that leaves a rougher surface? I understand using a profile scraper to avoid using the skew or maybe using it after a gouge, but I don't understand using it after the skew.

Andy, my interpretation is that using the bead cutting tool after the skew would allow a newby such as me to get a consistent profile on the small beads, w/o running the risk of tear-out from doing the rough work with it to.

 

[CarvedTones]

Using "newbie" and "skew" in the same sentence is uncommon unless the sentence also contains "entertainment". If you can cut a rough bead with a skew, you are only a technique tweak away from cutting final form ready for stain/finish (and yo are not a newbie). But when you are knew to the skew, rough beads are hard. A gouge (which still needs rolling) is easiest, IMO, and by no small margin. Just opinion from my experience; Rob may have a different way of using a skew for roughing that is't as difficult.

BTW, difficulty with respect to skews is an odd thing. They are easy to use and very versatile if you can work within a small margin of error. Ride the bevel, don't cut uphill, don't let either corner touch. Also don't "submarine" If there is a Hula skirt forming as you cut, you are digging too deep and headed for trouble...