What tool to do mortises.

[SubGuy]

First off, I am tired of the drill press and cheap hand chisels. I would really like a solution that make it more enjoyable and precise.
I have considered multiple solutions and have a base reasoning established. Dollars aways matter as I am leary of great expenditures unless it is really worth it.

What am I trying to do with it you ask, well... I do many of standard straight mortise and tenons. I make mostly full sized furniture with numerous small gift type stuff in between. I love not using fasteners. Joinery is my happy place.

-Just add mortise chisels. Good ones are semi-pricey, but I am not sure how much more benefit those dollars will have.

-The mortiser. Can be expensive. Multiple options there. Benchtop, but due to some conversations had with others. They are steering me towards a cabinet model with an X, Y table feature. So I have a list of features I have found and wonder their merits.
-X, Y Table
-Tilting Table
-Tilting Head
-Reversible Head (swings off the table for end mortising)
-Table Clamps
-Max Chisel Size
-Motor Size
-Stroke Length
I have never used a mortiser, but I seriously doubt I will have a problem with it considering...well just considering.

- Leigh style M&T jig. I have drooled over one for many years, but never used one and don't know if I would use it more or less than the others.

So your thoughts?

 

[Mike Davis]

Back in the early 80s, before I knew better, I cut 1600 3/8 by 1 inch mortices 3/4 inch deep in KDWO with a Rockwell drill press morticer.

Except for dulling the bits and re sharpening them over and over it wasn't too bad.

If I had it to do now I would get a floor model with a solid cast iron table, great hold downs and X/Y movements.

 

[kooshball]

First off, I am tired of the drill press and cheap hand chisels. I would really like a solution that make it more enjoyable and precise.
I have considered multiple solutions and have a base reasoning established. Dollars aways matter as I am leary of great expenditures unless it is really worth it.

What am I trying to do with it you ask, well... I do many of standard straight mortise and tenons. I make mostly full sized furniture with numerous small gift type stuff in between. I love not using fasteners. Joinery is my happy place.

-Just add mortise chisels. Good ones are semi-pricey, but I am not sure how much more benefit those dollars will have.

-The mortiser. Can be expensive. Multiple options there. Benchtop, but due to some conversations had with others. They are steering me towards a cabinet model with an X, Y table feature. So I have a list of features I have found and wonder their merits.
-X, Y Table
-Tilting Table
-Tilting Head
-Reversible Head (swings off the table for end mortising)
-Table Clamps
-Max Chisel Size
-Motor Size
-Stroke Length
I have never used a mortiser, but I seriously doubt I will have a problem with it considering...well just considering.

- Leigh style M&T jig. I have drooled over one for many years, but never used one and don't know if I would use it more or less than the others.

So your thoughts?

I have used a 1/3hp bench top machine with little success....just not enough power. I usually go to the drill press and use my Narex mortise chisels to clean them up...works pretty quick...

thant said, if I were doing tons of mortises then I think a cabinet type with some serious power would be in order...

 

[Stuart Kent]

I had the same conundrum earlier this year. Bought an Onsrud Overhead pin router at an austion, saved a bunch of money, and couldn't be happier. It's a whole different class of machine and I get the added advantages of overall mass, two cast iron fences for the x and y axes, a giant foot operated z axis table with 18" of vertical travel and an intermittent foot pedal lock for two-depth setups, I can use any standard 1/2" shank router bit, and I can pattern rout. It is EASILY my favorite machine in the shop (not including my lathes). This thing cuts mortises with industrial accuracy and repeatability, and it cost half of what a cabinet style mortiser would have. I'll never look back, I wish I had bought one of these 10 years ago.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

I had this mortiser for a few years (http://www.woodstockint.com/SHOP-FOX-3-4-HP-Heavy-Duty-Mortising-Machine/W1671). I got it used and it did everything I wanted it to. It could be a pain to secure the work at times and there seemed to be a little bit of runout in the chuck, but like I said, it was adequate for everything I did. I never found power to be an issue. Given that these bench top mortisers can be picked up on craigslist for about $200, that might be a good route for you.

I did just recently buy a rusty Powermatic 719a on craigslist and spent a bunch of time cleaning it up. I have only made a couple test mortises on it so far, but it does seem pretty sweet. I really like the x-y adjustments and the built in stop system for repeatability. These are just conveniences though. I would create stops on the bench top unit by double stick taping a long board to the fence and clamping on stop blocks. That worked fine, but took a little time to set up (make sure you use a strip of tape at the top and bottom of the fence to make sure the long board is parallel to the fence and at a right angle to the table... don't ask me how I know)

I am glad that I upgraded to the bigger mortiser with the x-y tables, better clamping and built in stops, but I would not say that my work will be better as a result. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SubGuy]

Thoughts on this?

http://www.lagunatools.com/mortisers/mortiser-platinumhct#

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

That seems like a really nice machine. I like how the head tilts and the table tilts. That makes it possible to do compound angles and opens up some other options as well. I also like that it has multiple clamps to hold the work. One downside of all hollow chisel mortisers is that they don't leave a smooth bottom like a router does. You have to clean up the bottom by hand or account for it by making the mortise a bit deeper than the length of the tenon.

 

[Stuart Kent]

Thoughts on this?

http://www.lagunatools.com/mortisers/mortiser-platinumhct#

it looks like a decent machine, I like that it has a 1.5hp motor. I would have some reservations at that price point when comparing it to the Powermatic, mostly because of customer service - I have heard a few concerns with slow or poor customer service from friends with Laguna tools; whereas I have never had or know anyone who has had a bad experience with Powermatic. I've always been big on local parts availability and service quality with any tool or machine. I have recently been hearing good things about Baleigh Industrial if yu want to save a little.

 

[SubGuy]

That seems like a really nice machine. I like how the head tilts and the table tilts. That makes it possible to do compound angles and opens up some other options as well. I also like that it has multiple clamps to hold the work. One downside of all hollow chisel mortisers is that they don't leave a smooth bottom like a router does. You have to clean up the bottom by hand or account for it by making the mortise a bit deeper than the length of the tenon.

The table and head movements is originally what attracted me to this machine. The price is cheaper than the Grizzly cabinet model which I don't think I need. Unfortunately I keep hearing about the non-smooth bottom and that does disappoint.

it looks like a decent machine, I like that it has a 1.5hp motor. I would have some reservations at that price point when comparing it to the Powermatic, mostly because of customer service - I have heard a few concerns with slow or poor customer service from friends with Laguna tools; whereas I have never had or know anyone who has had a bad experience with Powermatic. I've always been big on local parts availability and service quality with any tool or machine. I have recently been hearing good things about Baleigh Industrial if yu want to save a little.

I looked at the Baliegh's too. I had not heard anything bad about Laguna, that is interesting. I am not sure yet what I need vice what I want. I will keep pondering.

 

[Kicbak]

Are you normally doing through mortises? If you aren't and just want a way to join boards a domino could be a good solution. You can always take more time and use hand tools and the drill press for through mortises if you don't do them very often but do a lot of hidden ones.

 

[Endless Pursuit]

One of the major magazines just had a detailed review of mortisers. Powermatic won hands down. I've had mine for 7 years and LOVE it.

 

[Joe Scharle]

I make do with a Woodrat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkyKUBPO0to

 

[Jeff]

Nothing wrong with a plunge router and a few spiral upcut bits for el-cheapo mortises on the fly. A simple jig with a center point alignment for the mortise center point and end stops works nicely.

Leave the mortise ends rounded and shape the tenons to fit. The mortise will have a flat bottom and smooth walls. With a good slip fit there's no difference structurally from a traditional m & t.

 

[jazzflute]

+1 on the domino for all but through-mortises.

I know that M&T joints are somewhat of a religion with many folks, but if they aren't exposed (i.e. through) and part of the design, then a domino machine is actually more versatile, sets up much faster, and in almost all use cases actually creates a stronger joint than a traditional tenon, because of the material used and the fact that grain direction is not a consideration. Technically it IS a tenon; just a floating one. They ALWAYS fit correctly—no fiddly sizing and screwing up the shoulders—and can be cut for either precise alignment or with some lateral play. (Play being for purposes of precise alignment... Weird, but true.)

If the money for a mortiser is burning a hole in your pocket, you can always buy the 700 series domino. Or both machines. At $850 and $1,400 respectively, plus accessories, it should all work out.

;-)

K

 

[NOTW]

I'm with Jeff, I made a jig for my router and cut the mortises with several passes with a spiral bit and then square up the corners with my Narex mortising chisel.

 

[bluedawg76]

don't let me stop you from spending some dollars on a dedicated mortiser/ domino (awesome!), but this is my go to if I don't neander it. FWIW, Narex chisels run ~$10-12.

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[richlife]

I'm another who does mortises with a router (and leaves the ends rounded). I do the occasional cabinet etc., and this works well for the 20 to 40 mortises for each piece. And does through mortises also. Whether 1/4 (size of bit) or 3/8" (just because I want them) with an adjustment of the jig, it's fine and clean.

Rich

 

[Charles Lent]

I have gone almost the whole route. Started with a drill press M&T and chisels, then a Delta Dedicated mortiser, then tried a Trend M&T jig. I couldn't get snug fitting joints with it, so I returned it. Then I went to floating tenons using a home built fixture and a router, then I bought a Mortise Pal, and now have a Leigh FMT Pro jig. Router mortising is way better than the drill press or dedicated mortiser. It's easier to set up and cuts very clean mortises fast. The home made work positioner that I built for use with a router was very similar to the FMT jig but it didn't work well for making tenons, so it was basically only for floating tenons. It looked much like the main part of the FMT jig, but it was made from wood and T Slot extrusions. Plans for it are on the internet. I'll look for it if you are interested. Then I bought a Mortise Pal. It was OK for making mortises, and easier to set up than my home made jig, but it's also limited to floating tenon mortises and can't make matching tenons.

You can make your own tenon stock easily with a planer and a table saw. Rounding the edges of this tenon stock isn't necessary since a square edge tenon in a rounded end mortise will hold just as well if the sides of the tenon fit the mortise properly. The half round holes at each end catch the excess glue too. You can make the tenon stock thickness to fit the mortises very well with careful adjustment of the planer and make a bunch of each thickness to keep on hand. It's relatively inexpensive to make them this way too. On a tight budget the Mortise Pal is a pretty good choice. It even allows cutting multiple dowel holes in line. Accuracy is very good if you always reference the jig from the side opposite the clamp screw.

Of course, the ultimate way for me has been the Leigh FMT Pro jig because it lets you cut perfect mortises and matching tenons very easily and accurately. Yes it's expensive, but they now have a lower cost version, the Super FMT, that seems to be almost as good, but made from stamped steel instead of aluminum. The router templates and adjustments are identical for both jigs.

I bought my FMT Pro jig soon after they first came out when they weren't even called a "Pro" jig yet. They added the "Pro" title to the original FMT jig when they came out with the cheaper Super FMT jig. Both jigs seem to be able to hold the same accuracy, but clamping on the Super FMT seems to be a little more difficult (according to a friend who has one).

I had a job that needed almost 1600 M&T joints and this one job paid for my FMT jig. I would have easily spent another 60 hours or more on that job trying to make M&T joints that fit together well if I didn't have it. There is an adjustment on both versions of the FMT jigs that let you dial in the tightness of the M&T joint and it is very repeatable. If you record the settings you can repeat them 6 months later and get the exact same fit. I usually set it up, make one test cut, and then usually begin cutting my M&T joints without any further adjustments. As far as I know, there is no other means of cutting matching M&T joints on the market that lets you dial in the tightness of joint fit, except for a CNC. The Leigh FMT jigs are the only M&T router jigs that seem to offer this, and it was my main reason for buying the FMT over the other M&T jigs that are available. Even a Multi-Router doesn't seem to offer this capability.

The Domino came out after I had purchased my FMT jig, but I have been so satisfied with my FMT that I haven't even tried one. It's a only a floating tenon type machine, but it's cost is right up there with the Leigh FMT jigs and you can cut floating tenon mortises with an FMT jig if you don't want to make fixed tenons, but you can't cut fixed tenons with a Domino like you can with the FMT jigs.

Zach, If you were closer I would let you try out my FMT Pro jig. Maybe there's someone in your area who has one.

Charley

 

[Jeff]

There are 3-4 historical threads relevant to the question at the bottom of the page. Similar thoughts over about 8 years.

 

[Tarhead]

Pantorouter? http://www.woodgears.ca/pantorouter/index.html

He is working on an XL version so you may want to wait until he gets plans up