Updated, repaired: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

[farmerbw]

I was at a family reunion a couple of weekends ago and had a relative ask me if I could help him repair a cane he had made. It took him and a fellow woodworker 15 months to make this cane several years ago. He's sold all his tools and has given up ww'ing due to health reasons, so he's unable to tackle this himself since he no longer has the lathe he turned his part on. The cane is made of 2 sections of cherry, he did the turned section, and his friend did the upper portion with the carved balls in it. He joined the 2 sections together with a hanger bolt and it broke. I'm thinking the best repair approach would be to use a lathe to drill out the hanger bolt and then bore a little deeper into the 2 sections and epoxy in some rod of some type. I don't have the equipment or the know how to get this done without destroying something that has great meaning to him and am looking for someone in the Raleighwood area to take a look at it and see if it's doable. He's willing to pay for the repair, but would like to have some idea of what it might cost. He also told me that if the repair went south and the cane got destroyed he didn't want to know about it!

Any assistance, feedback, or suggestions on how, or if, this can be done.

Now for the pictures. Although it seems I'm missing a couple of the one's I intended to upload so I'll have to add them later. If different angles would help let me know and I can take more as well.

The 2 pieces



How the pieces need to go back together



TIA,
B.

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

I would be happy to repair that cane for free.

Let me know if you don't find a Brother close by to help.

 

[nn4jw]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Brian, I live out by RTP off 55. If you can bring the cane by the shop I'll be glad to take a look at it. No charge for the repair if we decide to go ahead with it. There are probably several ways to approach it.

-Jim

 

[farmerbw]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Mike and Jim thanks for the quick responses. Jim I'll shoot you a PM in a bit regarding availability.

Here's the rest of the pics I was missing yesterday.

Here's the top portion with the handle, the balls were carved in place by a gentleman with much more patience than me!! I also left out the size of the cane. The long section is 24 1/4" long and the handle section is about 10 1/2" long if those particulars matter.





These are the broken ends.





Thanks,
B.

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Threaded metal rod is weak and prone to snapping at the point of stress.

Best to drill and remove the metal screws and replace with strong hardwood dowels made to fit.

I would go at least 3/8 but no larger than 1/2 inch.

 

[farmerbw]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Mike, thanks. I was wondering if a hardwood dowel might be better than metal rod. The hanger bolt he initially used obviously didn't fair very well.

B.

 

[nn4jw]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Hardwood dowell is what I was thinking too. Shouldn't be to difficult to get the hanger bolt out.

 

[Roy G]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Maybe you could set it up in a drill press and use a hole saw to cut out the metal bolt, leaving a hole for a dowel to be glued in. My drill press table tilts, so it is possible.

Roy G

 

[ehpoole]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Maybe you could set it up in a drill press and use a hole saw to cut out the metal bolt, leaving a hole for a dowel to be glued in. My drill press table tilts, so it is possible.

Roy G

A drill press is the way to go as it takes a fair bit of controlled force to drill through hardened steel, but you will need to back out the bit frequently to keep it cool since it will have to be drilled dry (i.e. without oil). Failure to keep the bit cool will greatly reduce its service life before it needs resharpening. I would first focus on drilling out the bolt with a slightly oversized bit as the bit is liable to flex or drift a bit while cutting the hardened steel, then drill to the final dimensions of the new dowel (first undersized just a bit before you test the fit, then enlarge if needed).

One of the design mistakes in the design of this cane was the tapering down of the handle-to-cane interface, which further concentrated the stresses at that specific point and will also really limit the maximum size of the dowel that can be installed in its place. I would probably go with 3" long dowels (which is also a common dowel cutter length) so that there is plenty of dowel to bite into each half.

 

[allisnut]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

This may be part of a failed repair, but it looks to me like the cane was sawed in half through the bolt.

Is it allowable to explain the meaning behind the captured balls carved in the cane? I've seen several like this but I am not privy to the secrets behind it.

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

I would use a 1/16 inch bit in a hand drill to start a hole in the bolt, then enlarge it bit by bit to the size needed for an "E-Z-Out" screw remover tool.

I would make the dowel on a lathe to get just the right fit to what ever hole seems to offer the best compromise of cane vs. dowel sizes.

and finally I would use 2-hour epoxy to get the strongest joint.

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Is it allowable to explain the meaning behind the captured balls carved in the cane? I've seen several like this but I am not privy to the secrets behind it.

No, that should not be discussed. Sorry...

 

[Hmerkle]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

I would use a 1/16 inch bit in a hand drill to start a hole in the bolt, then enlarge it bit by bit to the size needed for an "E-Z-Out" screw remover tool.

I would make the dowel on a lathe to get just the right fit to what ever hole seems to offer the best compromise of cane vs. dowel sizes.

and finally I would use 2-hour epoxy to get the strongest joint.

That is a REALLY good approach - the only other way to get the hanger bolt out would be to use a tube-style cutter;

But even then - you don't have great access to get it out - an easy out or the style below (left hand drill) might be easier to extract the screw.

 

[ehpoole]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

I would use a 1/16 inch bit in a hand drill to start a hole in the bolt, then enlarge it bit by bit to the size needed for an "E-Z-Out" screw remover tool.

Yeah, I was just thinking about using bolt extractors as well, though if one is drilling everything out for a larger dowel then either will achieve the same end goal. Though I'd hate to hand drill into a hardened steel dowel myself, but then I'm just too lazy.

 

[Hmerkle]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Yeah, I was just thinking about using bolt extractors as well, though if one is drilling everything out for a larger dowel then either will achieve the same end goal. Though I'd hate to hand drill into a hardened steel dowel myself, but then I'm just too lazy.

I would still fixture this in the drill press as there will be a TON of torque created and the last thing i woudl like to say to "The guy" is "Well, it slipped in my hand... but I saved all the pieces!:embaresse

 

[farmerbw]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Adam, you're correct it was cut. I believe he told me it bent at the joint, so it was cut in hopes it could be repaired. And, no I'm not at liberty to divulge the meaning of the balls as Mike indicated. He did tell me while explaining how the cane was made, but said I shouldn't share.

The thing that's worrisome to me is if they used glue or epoxy on the hanger bolt when it was put together. I'm thinking that backing out the hanger bolt pieces might be difficult if it's epoxied or glued in. I need to ask him what was used to secure the hanger bolt in the wood before attempting to screw the pieces out.

The tube cutters Hank posted look interesting and was along the lines of what I was thinking might be possible, but I've never used them before. His concern seemed to mainly be getting new holes in the pieces centered and straight so that the sections lined back up properly. Whereas my concern was getting the hanger bolt out without doing any damage.......I'm not sure which will be more difficult and present greater risk..... :dontknow:

While he was showing it to me he indicated if they had been smarter they wouldn't have made the staff portion in two pieces, but that the gentleman that did the carving wanted a smaller piece of wood to handle while doing the carving......:BangHead:

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.
B.

 

[ehpoole]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

Just a quick FYI, those mini hole-saw style bolt removers are really meant for jobs where the will pass clean through the workpiece. They are just about useless on end grain because you will need a bandsaw to free the resulting plug from the workpiece, and that would mean cutting the cane an inch or more shorter -- probably not what you were aiming for.

Drilling wayward screws, bolts and rivets out are as time honored a solution as using a bolt extractor and either solution will get the job done if the dowel screw was simply screwed in...but if it was actually epoxied then drilling it out is the best bet and will ensure that the resulting torque does not rip the workpiece apart (it is hard to predict whether it is the wood or epoxy that will yield first, so best to play it safe).

A jig of some sort, properly setup to account for the differing wood widths, will aid in drilling the new dowel holes and ensuring everything lines up properly when it comes time to reassemble.

Whomever takes on the repair, best wishes... Although I would take Mike up on his offer as I know he will take great care of you.

 

[Hmerkle]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

...Although I would take Mike up on his offer as I know he will take great care of you.

Agreed!

 

[allisnut]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

I built a jig for drilling holes in the ends of 1-1/4" dowels on my midi lathe. I designed the jig to hold the dowel centered on the head stock, and just pushed the dowel into the drill bit held in a 3 jaw juck in the head stock. A similar jig could be made to hold the square section of the cane and the tubular cutter could be held in the three jaw chuck. THat way you get a centered hole, and you don't have to deal with drilling the bolt.

You could accomplish the same thing on a drill press, just focus on centering the cutter on the cane, not centering it around the bolt.

 

[CrealBilly]

Re: Lathe assistance needed to repair a relatives cane

As Mike Davis said - Threaded metal rod no good... soft metal... weak... hardened steel rod would be better. But a good ole hardwood dowel would most likely be the best solution...