Shop Electric Layout question

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dpsnyder

New User
Dan
I am re-doing the wiring in my shop (about 20'x28') here is what I was thinking for a wiring layout - all 20A circults for outlets. don't know if this JPG is legible. 3-4 outlets max/circuit, mostly quad boxes with 2 circuits in the box along the benches. (lights all separate on 2 15A circuits) Any thoughts?
shop30.jpg







 

ScottM

Scott
Staff member
Corporate Member
When I did my shop (22 x 32) I ran wire so that no two consecutive outlets were on the same circuit breaker. Also I highly recommend you add a couple 20A outlets in the ceiling which you will need to an air cleaner and other misc tools.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Take a moment and search "multiwire branch circuits." This allows you to have both two 120's and a 240 outlet at each location. You will have to use GFCI recpts. (120's,not 240's) at each location, instead of a GFCI breaker. This how I did my shop. One leg of the 240 (also one of the 120 recpt.) at each location operates the DC via a sensor located in the panel box. This way, I never have to keep up with a remote. If you run 3/4" EMT, you don't have to pull a separate ground back to the panel, plus you have space for additional circuits in the future.
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Looks pretty good to me. Are you using surface mounted conduit or Romex in the walls?

Bruce's suggestion on using a multiwire branch circuit is a good one. The majority of circuits in my shop are wired the conventional way, but I wired one of them as 110/ 220 in case I ever replace my small air compressor with a large one. The only downside of combined circuits is that if you ever need a 30A circuit, you have to run a new one (assuming you started with with 12g/ 20A). But that's a wonderful problem to have, it means there's a new tool on the way :tool:

I ran my lines across the top of the walls, and then made a drop to each box. This required more conduit (and work!), but it gave me more usable wall space.
 

nn4jw

New User
Jim
+1 to all the suggestions. When I wired my shop (24x24 story and half garage) last year I put each wall on a separate 20a circuit. Lights on their own circuit. A dedicated circuit for the window air conditioner. One 220v circuit for my welder. The circuit on the front wall between the doors is a single 20a outlet box for my table saw with and outlet outside as well. Separate circuits upstairs as well as two window air conditioner circuits up there. The garage is away from the house so I have all this on its own separate 200a metered service with plenty of extra room in the panel so I can add more circuits if I decide I need them. So far so good.
 

DaveD

New User
Dave
One of the problems with multi wire branch circuits as described is you have less total amperage at the locations. You've lost the additional amperage the 120v breakers would have provided. Also if the breaker trips for any reason you lost both 120 and 220 at the same time. It's typically not a problem if you are the only one in the shop and only have one tool running at a time.

Periodically my son and I do automotive and fabrication work together and shared neutral circuits as described would be a problem for us.
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
One of the problems with multi wire branch circuits as described is you have less total amperage at the locations. You've lost the additional amperage the 120v breakers would have provided. Also if the breaker trips for any reason you lost both 120 and 220 at the same time. It's typically not a problem if you are the only one in the shop and only have one tool running at a time.

Periodically my son and I do automotive and fabrication work together and shared neutral circuits as described would be a problem for us.

I think you are misunderstanding what a multiwire branch circuit is. There is no loss of amperage available at with such a setup, if you wire it as a pair of 20A circuits then you will have 2x 20A (@120V) at that location. You can safely draw 20A from both circuits concurrently without any issues (well, no issues unless you are in a datacenter with switching regulators with very poor PFC, but that's not something you'll ever run into in a shop environment).

A 240V receptacle could, in principle, be installed with such a setup, but is not typical as such circuits are almost universally wired as a pair of 120V receptacles. If you did, you would still have 20A at 240V or 2x20A at 120V or any combination in between that adds up to the same 4800VA -- nothing is lost regardless. It is best to wire 240V receptacles on their own dedicated circuit regardless, as such multiwire branch circuits will not have any impact.
 

dpsnyder

New User
Dan
Thanks all. I think I will add a couple of ceiling outlets. The ceilings are all 7'3" with open joists. I am not enclosing because it would seem a lot more closed in with a 7'3" ceiling. At least this way I have the add'l headroom between the joists. Maybe I can build a custom air cleaner with a squirrel cage between the joists??

I see the benefit of the multi-wire branch circuit, but I see a lot of warnings about it and I am on the edge of my comfort zone and don't want to risk it (unless there is a volunteer out there :D).

I will post pics as I make progress!
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
I see the benefit of the multi-wire branch circuit, but I see a lot of warnings about it and I am on the edge of my comfort zone and don't want to risk it (unless there is a volunteer out there :D).

There is really no need to fear multiwire branch circuits.

There are really only two points of concern with them, one which does not apply to your shop environment at all, and another that is absolutely under your control to address if you like. The third concern is not applicable to anything remotely resembling modern wiring.

Issues:
1) They are not generally suitable for environments with switching power supplies with very poor Power Factor. Outside of a large (and likely rather old) server farm you should never see this condition -- especially in a woodworking shop! However, even in this very extreme scenario an over-sized neutral can be run to mitigate the issue... but as I said, none of this is even a concern in a shop environment. Nowadays many such power supplies include power factor correction (PFC) further reducing this issue even in server farm environments.

2) The Big Code Debate that has raged for decades over the issue has to do with the fact that code allows the two 120V circuits to be treated as two seperate circuits and thus be serviced with a pair of single-pole circuit breakers (which will each be installed onto the seperate A and B buss within your load panel). The primary concern here is that if you overload one half of the circuit and trip the breaker (and thus think the entire receptacle is dead) there remains one half of the circuit that is still live. I don't know if Code has changed their interpretation on this issue in the past few years, or not, as it is a debate that has raged for decades. However, if it concerns you, then you can simply wire your multiwire branch circuits using a single double-pole circuit breaker. That way if either side trips then both sides trip and all power in the receptacle box is disconnected and rendered safe (if, by chance, you were including a 240V receptacle in your multiwire branch circuit configuration, then the double-pole circuit breaker would be mandatory any how).

3) In *very* (very, very) old houses with multiwire branch circuits it was not uncommon for the neutral conductor to be grossly undersized which could result in overheating if the loads on each half were severely unbalanced or had very poor Power Factor. This is not an issue with any remotely modern wiring as the neutral conductor will be run with the same gauge wire as the two hots and is, thus, perfectly capable of handling a 100% imbalance outside of concern #1 (above).​

I hope this clears up some of your concerns.

A few other points I meant to make:
1) Do you ever plan to install a large air compressor for pneumatic tools, venturi vacuum press, spray finishing, etc? If so then you will want another 240V receptacle wired with #8 copper so that it can accommodate anything from a small compressor running on a 20A circuit all the way up to a 40A circuit with minimal voltage drop. Locate this wherever you would envision your air compressor being located.

2) Do you plan to add A/C or electric strip heating in the future? If so then these will likely require 240V receptacles of 15A to 30A each (or a single such if both are combined into a single unit).

3) As part of your lighting circuit, if you spend a lot of time in your shop after dark then it is good insurance to go ahead and install 3 or 4 emergency lighting fixtures (they're quite cheap at the BORGs) to provide you with enough emergency light to safely power down and exit your shop in the event of a loss of power. Without such lighting it can be very easy to let your hands or arms wander into the danger zone while fumbling for the "Off" switch -- plus less chance of you tripping and hurting yourself in the dark. For a shop of any size you will need at least 3 or 4 units to get enough usable light to safely move around by and you can aim each swivel head lamp at an individual work area or aisle to boot.
 

DaveD

New User
Dave
I think I understand how multi wire branch circuits are 'supposed' to work. What i may nor understand is someone else's interpretation of it and how they write about it. Multi wire branch circuits require the breakers to be tied together. I'm not going to waste my time figuring out the code section. If one cares they can go look it up (or not).

As to the OP write up on multi wire branch ckts I took it as wanting to pull both 220 and 110 from the same 2 hots and a neutral. If that was the case then he would lose amperage capacity vs wiring the 220 on its own double pole breaker and the 120 on its own breaker. Each as separate circuits with no common neutral.

Personally I think its poor practice to do multi wire branch circuits. Everything's fine till some yahoo goes into the panel box and moves breakers/wires around and gets both legs on the same buss bar. Or you lose the neutral for some reason and get back feed problems through plugged in appliances. All in the name of saving a few bucks by not having to run one more conductor 'x' number of feet.

Just remember codes are minimums you have to meet. Just like a school grade. Congratulations you just passed with a grade of D-.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Personally I think its poor practice to do multi wire branch circuits. Everything's fine till some yahoo goes into the panel box and moves breakers/wires around and gets both legs on the same buss bar. Or you lose the neutral for some reason and get back feed problems through plugged in appliances. All in the name of saving a few bucks by not having to run one more conductor 'x' number of feet.

Just remember codes are minimums you have to meet. Just like a school grade. Congratulations you just passed with a grade of D-.
First let me assure you that you already have a multi-wire circuit in your house. It's the most important, used and loaded circuit in your house. It's the SERVICE from meter to panel. Your service consists of two hots, ONE NEUTRAL, and a ground, unless your house is old enough that the ground and neutral could be one conductor. As for some yahoo, no yahoo is going to touch the wiring in my house, but to each, his own. As a side note, remember the last doctor you saw only had to get 74 on the State boards to practice medicine in NC! That meant he could be wrong 26% of the time and still open a practice. So much for minimums. Oh yeah, all electric clothes dryers use a multi-wire branch circuit. Only the heating element is on 240, the controls, light, and motor all operate on120.
 
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Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
NC Code permits multi wire branch circuits provided the circuit breakers are tied together so as to make both (or all 3 in a 3 phase scenario) trip simultaneously. The problem is that most electrical inspectors frown upon having both a 120v and 240v outlet on the same breaker even though they have a neutral where required. I asked this question of an inspector some couple years ago and he said if he came upon this situation he would definitely fail the installation, but I can't remember the specific reason other than the circuit must be designed for the specific load (120v OR 240v) not both. As for modern dryers, yes, they are using 120v controls & motors, and they now also use a 4 wire plug. They are also a UL listed appliance designed, tested and approved to be connected in that specific fashion.
In the end, I'll have to say it's like the City Inspection Department told me when I asked about their concerns regarding my qualifications to wire my own shop. Their reply was, "Honey, it's your shop. If you wanna burn it down, that's your problem." I guess my insurance adjuster might have a little something to say about that too.........
 

FlyingRon

Moderator
Ron
Some GFCI's have a load neutral and can drive MWBC. Unless your shop is in an unfinished basement, garage, or certain at or below grade accessory buildings, there's no strict requirement for a GFCI.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
When I built my shop (1980,) I only had to have a GFCI on the wall nearest the doors. By the same token, you could put ALL the bathrooms, and outside recpt. on one GFCI circuit. This was before blow dryers and curling irons. You didn't have to have GFCI in kitchen near sink either. Things have sure changed.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
When I built my shop (1980,) I only had to have a GFCI on the wall nearest the doors. By the same token, you could put ALL the bathrooms, and outside recpt. on one GFCI circuit. This was before blow dryers and curling irons. You didn't have to have GFCI in kitchen near sink either. Things have sure changed.
My current home was built in the late 890s as well and they used only 2 GFCI receptacles for the entire house. The panel for lights & receptacles is in a basement closet. The GFCI for the bathrooms is in that same closet. It is frustrating to have to go downstairs every time a hair dryer trips that GFCI. Use them where they are needed, but also put them where they are used as well.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
+1 to some of the lunacy surrounding GFCIs. Several years ago I had my electricians add a new circuit (110 v, 20A) via conduit to service 2 refrigerators and a freezer in the garage which is above grade. They insisted on installing a GFCI. So if I'm out of town and the circuit trips everything is wasted?

Fast forward to the inspection. The inspector noticed the GFCI and said "you don't need or want that in this application". The appliances are essentially immovable objects well removed from water even though they're in the garage and constitute an exterior circuit. He then showed me the NC Electrical Code book and cited the specific reference. Voila! That was fixed in a few minutes.
 

nn4jw

New User
Jim
For sure avoid AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) devices in or near a shop. They are, as I understand it) required for bedrooms in new construction but nowhere else. Those darn things will trip on any arc, including plugging and unplugging. At some point (if they haven't already) they might show up in combination with GFCI's in the same devices and then we'll never get anything to work.
 

FlyingRon

Moderator
Ron
All 15/20A 115V receptacles in garages MUST have GFCI by code. There's NO exception for refrigeration. There's no exception for above grade. I don't know what your inspector was working from but it wasn't a legitimate North Carolina code. North Carolina has been following the National Electrical Code for years (they're pretty good at adopting the new ones as they come out every three years. The 2011 is now in effect as of last August).

The electrician was unfortonately doing what he is REQUIRED to do. You're free to violate the code as your risk assessment allows.
 

FlyingRon

Moderator
Ron
For sure avoid AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) devices in or near a shop. They are, as I understand it) required for bedrooms in new construction but nowhere else. Those darn things will trip on any arc, including plugging and unplugging. At some point (if they haven't already) they might show up in combination with GFCI's in the same devices and then we'll never get anything to work.

That's the old code. Now all living spaces other than things like kitchens and bathrooms (which require GFCI) now must have Arc Faults for all 15/20 120v CIRCUITS (note that includes lighting in addition to receptacles). There's an exception for metal conduit. Workshops however do not fit into the category of living space as far as I am concerned.
 
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