Rip-Offs continue
- Thread starter tvrgeek
- Start date
Is it patented? Unless it is , there is probably not a "ripoff". Just the market forces at work. Im not sure exactly what you speak of, but did a quick search and dont see anything particularly novel about the concept. Just the ridiculously high price for a plastic push block thingy.
Patent or not, what looks like it came out of the same mold is a rip-off. It is IP theft.
If you have not used one, you don't know how handy it is. Sure I have more standard DIY push blocks in various configurations I use 90% of the time, but the GRR Ripper is handy for some odd things, especially smaller stuff that I would hesitate to do in the TS. Overpriced? You don't know what the development cost is, volumes, marketing, production or anything else. Expensive? Yes. Unless you could see their books, you do not know if it is over-priced.
If you have not used one, you don't know how handy it is. Sure I have more standard DIY push blocks in various configurations I use 90% of the time, but the GRR Ripper is handy for some odd things, especially smaller stuff that I would hesitate to do in the TS. Overpriced? You don't know what the development cost is, volumes, marketing, production or anything else. Expensive? Yes. Unless you could see their books, you do not know if it is over-priced.
The patent expired this year unless it received some form of extension. It is generally expected that someone will copy a successful product upon patent protections expiring. Simply the nature of things. I suppose we can lodge complaints to Lie Nielsen (and others) for ripping off misters stanley and bailey as well.
I have two of the original and they are useful. They are overpriced and I received them as gifts. It is more amazing that direct copies weren't widely available before this.
I have two of the original and they are useful. They are overpriced and I received them as gifts. It is more amazing that direct copies weren't widely available before this.
Cool. I don't know how to tell you that making copies of products outside of patents is par for the course, but it is.
I'm not going to get any more indignant for a company selling $60 plastic pushblocks having copies made once their patent expires than I will for sawstop when their patents allow competitors on the US market (and I also own a sawstop along with my grr rippers)
Once patent protections expire, the original inventor either needs to innovate again or create such a superior product that we will continue to buy from them.
I'm not going to get any more indignant for a company selling $60 plastic pushblocks having copies made once their patent expires than I will for sawstop when their patents allow competitors on the US market (and I also own a sawstop along with my grr rippers)
Once patent protections expire, the original inventor either needs to innovate again or create such a superior product that we will continue to buy from them.
We have a different view of ethics. Different from the legal aspect.
I am not sure the PCS is out of line pricewise. Again, one has to amortize the development and it is a well made tool. A big step up in precision over say a Grizzly or even my better-made-on-the-same-line, Harvey. A company has to recover those costs before their protections run out. I do look forward to the SS technology moving to lower quality machines, especially in the job-site market where untrained workers in a hurry are at much higher risk.
One strategy is when protections run out, the front end costs should have been recovered, and then it can be priced based on unit cost and market tolerance, often expanding volume. Usually a new slightly different version is introduced so as not to insult those who bought the previous version.
PS: I do know "par for the course" My first career was in manufacturing competing against IBM. The company actually started with flat out stolen designs combined with an idea IBM said would not work ( it didn't)
I am not sure the PCS is out of line pricewise. Again, one has to amortize the development and it is a well made tool. A big step up in precision over say a Grizzly or even my better-made-on-the-same-line, Harvey. A company has to recover those costs before their protections run out. I do look forward to the SS technology moving to lower quality machines, especially in the job-site market where untrained workers in a hurry are at much higher risk.
One strategy is when protections run out, the front end costs should have been recovered, and then it can be priced based on unit cost and market tolerance, often expanding volume. Usually a new slightly different version is introduced so as not to insult those who bought the previous version.
PS: I do know "par for the course" My first career was in manufacturing competing against IBM. The company actually started with flat out stolen designs combined with an idea IBM said would not work ( it didn't)
I guess we agree, as you just repeated exactly the same reasons I gave for purchasing a product outside of patent protection- it is either superior or continues to innovate. I suspect sawstop will continue to sell many saws due to the high quality. I suspect the grrr-ripper will soon see a drastic reduction in price, a massive loss of market share, and/or a new iteration. Such is the nature of patenting what is essentially a fairly simple product.
Case in point, one could print a perfectly functional one for only a couple of dollars and some nuts.
www.thingiverse.com
I do not consider a business to operate "ethically" in the sense that they will respect an expired patent.
Given that their FAQ states that their products are made "around the globe" I am certain that they were very aware clones would exist the moment the patent expired. Probably made on an alternating shift in the very same factory in China or similar...
Case in point, one could print a perfectly functional one for only a couple of dollars and some nuts.
Pushblock Clone by lbravo5495
Hardware and assembly guide found in downloads under pushblock document. Must download some files from the original uploader. The original files are labeled as such in the assembly guide. Only the main body piece and the lower centerpiece were printed with supports.
www.thingiverse.com
I do not consider a business to operate "ethically" in the sense that they will respect an expired patent.
Given that their FAQ states that their products are made "around the globe" I am certain that they were very aware clones would exist the moment the patent expired. Probably made on an alternating shift in the very same factory in China or similar...
Patent is expired, other companies are copying the design. It's legal and happens all the time, not sure what there is to get so excited about.
I'm starting to watch where I buy items on Amazon, usually look to the manufacturer's Amazon page. There are too many knockoffs out there now.
Stop and ask yourself if you have anything in your household that WASN'T made by the original patent holder. Look at your phone, TV, washing machine, tissue, refridgerator, etc. Almost everything you have was once protected by a patent. When Bill Beyesmeyer invented his saw fence, he patented it. Seventeen years to the day, companies who had been paying him royalties, started making their own versions. Funny thing is years earlier, Bill rescended his patent. Look at motorcycles. While others make make a bike that looks like a Harley, they don't sound like a Harley. HD copywrited that"Potato, Potato" sound. Ever notice that all Hondas, no matter what year or model make the exact sound when starting? Roundup was around a hundred bucks a quart till Monsanto's patent ran out. Now I can buy generic Roundup for $135 for 2.5 GALLONS. Same 41% strength. Do you only take "brand name drugs," or do you use generic ones instead? I have difficulty seeing your point.
I have actually been in and done work on the Harley Davidson sound judging chamber for the motorcycle exhaust sound. They wanted me to run cables into it (mind you this was a couple of years after it was built) so they could have networking in it. This was while the patent lawsuit was active. Pretty much any physical connection to a sound judging chamber defeats the purpose of that chamber. Had to regretfully inform Willie of that.
If I remember correctly that claim for the exhaust sound was dropped a while later.
It is NOT IP theft if a patent has expired. I looked at the website for it and there is no mention of patents I could find, just something about "the inventor". An "inventor" does not a patent make. I doubt there ever was a patent on this, there is nothing novel here. There is very little time spent on this particular item as far as design development cost or production either, unless the "inventor" was slow with CAD tools. Sure, they spent some money on hard tooling for plastic parts but even those are extremely cheap in China these days, and Ill bet thats where theyre sourced. Maybe it is handy, I dont know, but I certainly wouldnt pay $60-70 for a plastic gadget, ever.
Yeah, IP theft isn't just someone making something that someone else has already made, certainly not something with an expired patent. Interesting take on it, though.
I have a the Grr-Ripper and really like it. I inherited it from a Grandfather.
For anyone interested, and I know I am (at 1/2 the price of the MicroJig), here are links to the less expensive versions:
1- Here's the one that makes tvrgeek upset.
2- Here's the Milsecraft one, that I didn't know about before, but which looks cool.
3- Here's another copy of the Grr-Ripper that looks like an even closer copy.
I have a the Grr-Ripper and really like it. I inherited it from a Grandfather.
For anyone interested, and I know I am (at 1/2 the price of the MicroJig), here are links to the less expensive versions:
1- Here's the one that makes tvrgeek upset.
2- Here's the Milsecraft one, that I didn't know about before, but which looks cool.
3- Here's another copy of the Grr-Ripper that looks like an even closer copy.
Last edited:
I love my Gripper. But I also love that I didn't buy it (xmas gift). I do appreciate that Microjig used to be a long time sponsor of Steve Ramsey, enabling him to make a lot of content in the "golden years" of YouTube woodworking. They cut their sponsorship to content creators several years ago, and others have followed suit (see also: The Wood Whisperer and Powermatic). Perhaps this was cost-cutting in preparation for the patent expiring? I have to imagine Microjig doing a market price adjustment at some point.
There is also this slightly different one (that's "Patented" from the title) for only $25. Looking at Delmar's website, they appear to be based in Sanford, NC.
That's the same link as #2, but I think you meant to link to this one by Souyou
There is also this slightly different one (that's "Patented" from the title) for only $25. Looking at Delmar's website, they appear to be based in Sanford, NC.
Yup! I got ctrl V trigger happy!
