Oak Dye Stain?

[MrAudio815]

Hello,

I'm making a golf ball display and decided to read "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner.

It seems like a dye stain would be best to penetrate the wood and not highlight any flaws in sanding, etc.

Has anyone found a good dye type stain for Oak (I believe its white oak, its lighter in color). They want it to be similar to there stained oak furniture.


Thanks,

Matthew

 

[MrAudio815]

The customer gave me Cabot penetrating wood stain, cherry color. Is this the dye type?

 

[SubGuy]

I do not like Cabot. I recommend General Finishes water based dye. I just got done using it on walnut, and the grain structure is similar to WO. Another thing to stay away from is any Rustoleum brand stains. They are not good and are hard to work with. I like all of General Finishes stuff and have now forsaken all Minwax products for them. I think you will get a better looking finish with General. Also you can customized finishes by using a water based stain over top. I will try to get pictures of the thing I did with that.

 

[Bryan S]

I am far cry from being a staining guru but, I am sure it is a pigmented stain.

From the tech data

PENETRATING WOOD STAIN #8100 Series

% Pigment (weight): 5.4–16.5

Viscosity: 20-80 cps.

Pigment Type:Titanium and Iron Oxides, Silicates

Vehicle Type:Tung & linseed oils, alkyd resins

Solvent Type:Aliphatic Hydrocarbon

V.O.C. Content:GPL Maximum of 550 grams/liter (4.6 pounds/gal

Link to the PDF

http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/Penetrate-OB-Wood-Stain.pdf

 

[MrAudio815]

Wow, thanks to both of you. In the book it said that they didn't give out that info if it was dye or pigment. Things must have changed

I tested like the book said on a scrap of maple and according to the test its both pigment & dye. At first the dye at top of the stick looked nice, and the pigment at the bottom was blotchy after I wiped it off. Now it looks blotchy everywhere.

No thanks Cabot... And no wonder I don't like staining... I love the natural look and wish people didn't want us to match their stained, possibly fake wood furniture.

I'll try to talk him into a natural finish.


Thanks again,

Matthew

 

[SubGuy]

Blotchiness is a problem that comes in both. What I have found, with dye, I get blotchy results with poor dyes and significant changes in grain density and poor openness. I get blotchiness with stains with poor sanding and poor stains. I love General Finishes, it applies well. I've also found a sander sealer helps out tons to prevent blotchiness. I've use shellac based sander sealers. Prestains are helpful as well, especially with water-based stains. I would be curious to see your blotchiness on your test piece and see how you went about prepping it. I am always gathering information on finishing from experience and other's experiences. Every mistake teaches you if you study it properly.

 

[MrAudio815]

Zach,

Very good point on the preparations of the test stick. I did not preparations to it, it was a scrap piece I found on the shop floor with one pretty clean somewhat jointed side and the other was somewhat fuzzy. The fuzzy side was very blotchy and the other side not so much.

So I can see that I have not done a true test to see how good the finish is, but still would rather finish the project in a natural finish as I am sure the customer doesn't want to pay high dollar for the item. If I do ever get into staining I will certainly look at this post again and ask you for any further help if needed.


Thanks again,


Matthew

 

[Jeff]

Trans Tint dye stains are water based and they can be used in shellac or lacquer thinner too. They are not pigment based stains so they don't contain any suspended solids which is a key difference which helps to overcome blotch prone woods. The color is very intense at first glance, but the tone is easily adjusted by adding more solvent.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm

What type of wood are you using for your finished piece?

 

[bluedawg76]

Personally on oak or ash, I prefer either an oil varnish mix or thinned blo to pop the grain followed by a varnish finish b/c stains are such a PITA. But here's my $0.02 on stain based on personal experience:
for dye stains, transtint are good and water or alcohol can be used as the diluent solvent. there are also powdered dyes available such as homestead transfast dyes that are also great. As for pigmented stains such as Cabot, miniwax, general finishes, etc., I prefer GF either water or oil-based, but minwax are ok as well. In general, a wash coat of either thinned varnish or clear shellac will substantially reduce the blotchiness. I do this with any wood I stain. I have not had good luck w/ pre-conditioners; IME, they are worthless -a wash coat is much more predictable and consistent, YMMV. for the wash coat I prefer shellac b/c it dries so fast. 1-2 coats of a 1-1.5lb cut (dewaxed of course). 50/50 thinned varnish will work as well but will impart a bit of amber color. Either way, I sand the wash coat smooth with 180 or 220 and then stain. Note that any water-based stain (dye or pigment) will raise the grain. So mist the wood with water first and allow to dry; then sand (180 or 200) smooth and proceed with water-based stain. Most importantly, try out your finish schedule first on scrap cutoffs from your project before proceeding.

HTH,
Sam

 

[KenOfCary]

This may be way too complicated for you and I'm not sure exactly the color you're going for, but here is what I did to get a craftsman look to my Prairie Settle made of QS White Oak.

BTW, Maple will blotch a lot more than Oak. Just the nature of the wood.

I planned to fume my wood in Ammonia which makes it slightly greenish so I first dyed the wood with 50 drops of trans-tint Reddish Brown dye in 16 oz. of distilled water. I first painted the wood with distilled water plain to raise the grain and lightly sanded with 320 grit. Everything was pre-sanded to 220 grit prior to that. After the dye dried the wood had a pinkish tint.

Into the fuming box, add ammonia (Use an Ammonia rated full face mask, must protect the eyes as well as the nose/lungs.) Seal it up and leave for 3-4 days. I used the potent but not extremely lethal 10% Ammonia that Ace sells as Janitorial strength. Blue print outfits can get a 20+ mixture but that is deadly and I prefer not to work with it. The 10% will do the job. The stuff on the supermarket shelf is only about 2% and you wont get the results you're after.

After fuming the wood is a deep brown and the addition of Tried and True Varnish Oil will make it a deep chocolate brown. There are pictures of the finished Settle in the General Woodworking Forum and my Gallery if you want to see the results.

As I said this may be more trouble than you want to go to, but the results are fabulous in my opinion. Use extreme caution and have the proper safety equipment if you chose to mess with fuming.

- Ken.