New deck w/ screened porch & roof

Wolfpacker

Brent
Senior User
Brent, think again about SIPS remember, they are structural, no framing,saves money and time, also they are fully insulated, again saves money and time,the ONLY person who will not like them is the electrician :}, Roof same thing, you cant look at just $$$$ up front you need to fully see all the things they save
I would have thought it would be cheaper also but the company using aluminum framing and SIPS roof panels quoted $29.5K and I have two quotes for stick built at $16.5K and $17.1K. I also have 2 quotes for stick built that are $33K & $35K. Demand is up for this type work and most contractors are backed up several months. It seems they are quoting higher prices knowing they will get some of them and make more profit. If the contractor using SIPS were at or around $20K, I'd likely go that route. Their quote included electrical for a ceiling fan and outdoor spotlights on the outside corners.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
have a one on one sit down with him and lay it out with him, if u go 5 up and he goes 5 down etc you know where I am at, tell him you love all his stuff but your budget ends at x$$$. Since everyone rightly or knot is around 30 and u have 2 bids for half, i kinda wonder bout them. 16.5, fully framed,roofed,wired,insulated,windows and sliders?????????? he is taking huge shortcuts somewhere, i wood be nervous bout that
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
Time for a spreadsheet to list and compare all the bids and see why some are 2x others. And be sure to check for GC license on the $33K and $35K ones. And find out if they use their own employees or sub out the jobs. I've found companies with their own employees tend to be more expensive. As well as those certain companies that advertise heavily on the radio and TV. Somebody has to pay for that. And find out if they have insurance (workers comp, general liability, etc.). There is another insurance, can't think of the name, bank required I have it on a rehab job I did, basically it's insurance on the house incase work caused damage (think someone leaves extension cord plugged in and it catches fire and burns house down), ran me $600 on the rehab job we did where it was required, and that cost passed on to client.

I've got to replace an exterior door at my house. I've gotten bids from $2500 to $13,500 for it (has windows on sides and top) but I can get the door itself from supply house for $1200ish. What I don't have is experienced labor to replace a door so I need to outsource the job. So what's the difference between the $2500 and the $13,500 door? Brand name mostly. And the $13,500 door is from a company that advertises heavily.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
daniel, first I am on your side; Is the new door IDENTICAL to the old door,size wise. Having side lites and transom lites that do not exist on the old door requires a pretty substantial amount of work. The exterior wall is a load bearing wall.The new door may require a header change,if so, temporary supports are required to take the entire load while re framing the rough opening for new door. that said the huge differences in price is normal. Some contractors will low ball to get the job then change order you to death with upcharges and you usually wind up paying almost the same as the higher bidder.Also materials have gone to the moon with Alice. Osb sheathing was avg 7$, now 17$ in the last year osb has risen 138%, 2 x almost 90%. Of course along with manufactured pandemic, a lumber shortage. How convenient. best guess fair price 8k to 10k. big question what type of siding?
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
daniel, first I am on your side; Is the new door IDENTICAL to the old door,size wise. Having side lites and transom lites that do not exist on the old door requires a pretty substantial amount of work. The exterior wall is a load bearing wall.The new door may require a header change,if so, temporary supports are required to take the entire load while re framing the rough opening for new door. that said the huge differences in price is normal. Some contractors will low ball to get the job then change order you to death with upcharges and you usually wind up paying almost the same as the higher bidder.Also materials have gone to the moon with Alice. Osb sheathing was avg 7$, now 17$ in the last year osb has risen 138%, 2 x almost 90%. Of course along with manufactured pandemic, a lumber shortage. How convenient. best guess fair price 8k to 10k. big question what type of siding?
The new door is identical to old door (old door is banged up and really bad wood rot, and the side lite seals broken so condensation forming inside windows) so no real work needed to the opening area. Vinyl siding exterior. And the bids are for identical spec doors (side lites, transoms, size, door material, etc.) Heck the cheapest quote was the most recent quote (and I've used this company in the past and haven't had issues with change orders or up charges but you are right about that, have to be careful when hiring).
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Since you know this company,have previous experience with them then answer is simple. Go with them :) :). I wood say expect a little more than meets the eye, since rotten jambs possibly some framing may be damaged, if luck maybe new jack studs, kings should be ok.
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
Since you know this company,have previous experience with them then answer is simple. Go with them :) :). I wood say expect a little more than meets the eye, since rotten jambs possibly some framing may be damaged, if luck maybe new jack studs, kings should be ok.
yeah, I'm expecting the jack studs to have some rot, it's on a concrete slab so at least no rotted subfloor there, but all contingencies like that will be in final bid so no surprises.
 

junquecol

Bruce
User
It does not appear to have footings, just the slab so it will have to be sawcut where new posts will be needed. I'm having the contractor put down screen over the joists before putting down the floor. Also having the floor boards "picture framed" so you don't see the ends of boards and the gaps which can let critters in.
I would nix the idea of putting screen down over joists. Cracks will soon fill with debris. If it were mine, I would add removable screen panels to under side of joists. Maybe you could find some woodworker to make them for you.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Bruce if you are not aware, you must line the joist hangers with something like Grace ice and water shield, self stick rubber, and run a strip along the tops of each joist
 

junquecol

Bruce
User
Bruce if you are not aware, you must line the joist hangers with something like Grace ice and water shield, self stick rubber, and run a strip along the tops of each joist
That's what Weather Watch /Weather Guard is. Comes in 36" wide X 50' rolls, with granular surface. Was using it long years before Grace ice and water shield came to the market.
 

CrealBilly

Jeff
Senior User
I have been getting quotes/estimates on tearing off the deck on my house and replacing with a screen porch and roof. The joists are starting to show deterioration and I can't see putting walls and roof on a so-so framing structure. The deck is also not level....several inche of drop from house to outer side. Not sure if it was built that way or it got that way over time. I don't like the way the faux trex looks (not sure how long it's been there) so will replace it also. The house is 50 years old and I don't know if the support structure is original or not.

Out of 5 estimates, only one has proposed using more posts than the current 3 posts and it was the lowest estimate....about half what the bigger companies want. The current and new structure will be 12' x 20' with the 12' sides going away from the house wall. I just don't see the need for 2 new posts 6' from the house wall and two more at the house wall. I've seen screen porches this big and bigger with just the outer support. Tell me I'm not crazy. Here is a pic of the current deck. I believe they would all use 2x12's for the ledger board and double rim joints with 2x10 floor joists. Yes, I know, the dish will have to be moved...lol.

View attachment 195822
Looks nice, all but that satellite dish... I just cut three of them down at ground level out of the yard. Assuming you got your ledger good and secured to studs behind the bricks you should be good. The stilts don't look plumb, but I think that's because the deck slants a little to shed water/snow/ice.
 

tvrgeek

tvrgeek
User
Your deck is a poster child of what not to do, so removing it is wise. It could never pass code today.
Have you checked with your county about if you need an engineer?
How many posts depends on the size of the header. Lumber or glue-lam. Missing from yours are diagonal bracing.
Codes have changed so footings may need to change.

On costs, usually the highest is padded. Usually the lowest has a reason. Most licensed and bonded companies will be pretty close if the same design. Be aware of anyone who can start tomorrow The good guys are all backed up.

Where I am in the Piedmont, I did not screen under my deck, but if down in the Sandhills, I understand one wants to screen under too. Gnats or something.
 

Wolfpacker

Brent
Senior User
The current SNAFU is that my septic drain field is just over 2' from the slab that the deck sits on. Current law says I can't put a footer closer than 5' from the drain field. In order to maintain the 12' dimension, it would have to be cantilevered and I understand that building codes don't allow a cantilever design when there is a roof load involved. I think it can be, but will likely need to have an architect or engineer involved and lvl beams. Working on that aspect now, but if anyone has first hand, current knowledge in the area I'm all ears. With conventional framing, I'm reduced to a 9.5' deck, which I believe is just not wide enough.
 

tvrgeek

tvrgeek
User
Tough one! Seems FLW ignored all codes, and for than matter any respect for the engineers. But we did get beautiful cantilevered buildings.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
The current SNAFU is that my septic drain field is just over 2' from the slab that the deck sits on. Current law says I can't put a footer closer than 5' from the drain field.
Although less than ideal, it's not a huge deal to move a drain line. Pool installers do this all the time, so you just need to find a septic installer that can manage the re-location and approvals.

Cantilevering 29" for 2x12 @ 16"OC is within the code (NC Residential Code, Table R502.3.3(1) via Appendix M 106.2). You can go farther with design by a licensed structural engineer. So your post could be 36" behind your current edge of slab with the extent of the new deck face just 6" behind your current without having to move the drain line.
 

Sourwould

Taylor
User
I see you're in hendersonville. I have a very experienced builder friend in weaverville that could probably come out and give you a consultation. I think if you get the inspector out, he may simply give you a guide for meeting code minimum.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Steve LOL you beat me to it. That was my thought, heavy duty standard framing core and cantilever 3 sides. Stays within restrictions. or cant just one side by plumbing
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
2x8 12 foot floor joists on 16 inch centers can support 40 lbs live plus 10 lbs dead load. Live load is you, dead load is the roof and furniture. 2x10s look like overkill. If you use wood flooring, 16 inch centers works but trex usually needs 12 inch - which would make the 2x8s overkill.

How many posts you need is a function of how large the beam and posts are. I did not consult the tables for a doubled 2x12 but it is not hard to do. Whether posts are required at the house side is dependant on what the house can support. That could get a bit involved if there are windows and doorways. The addition of posts may be a way to avoid tearing into the walls to see what is there. My guess is that you don't need them unless you have wide windows or doorways in that wall. Something like a sliding glass door under the ledger means the ledger has to be another good sized beam and there need to be at least doubled and possibly tripled 2x4s holding it up. Or you have to at least partially support the porch with posts. I don't intend this to be an answer, just some ideas on considerations.

I turned a porch into a screened in porch over 10 years ago and I did not have posts at the house. The wall under the ledger had only one small window. It was fine. The side away from the house had a doubled 2x12 beam which rested on 4 brick columns. The porch was about the same size as yours, 12 feet wide and at least 20 feet long, might have been 24 feet long. I put a shed roof over it which is easier to frame and tie into the existing house. Personally I would not worry about the existing soffits and facia until the porch is framed up. But with a contractor I understand the need to get things written down up-front. I think the key thing is how the ceiling of the porch looks - how much comes off should be whatever it takes to make the porch ceiling look whatever is "right" to you. I put vinyl soffit material on the underside of the roof rafters so it had a cathedral ceiling. I don't think I took the old soffit and facia off.
 

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