My most frustrating tool

[wndopdlr]

I am a little embarrassed to post this, but I suspect that we all have a tool that just seems to fight us at every turn. Mine is a 25" Woodtech dual drum sander. I have a 20" planer, so this machine is used just to flatten boards and panels and save hours with a belt sander.

I just cannot seem to keep the belts from burning. I know that this happens quicker with Cherry, Maple and Walnut, but Red and White Oak ?? give me a break. I guess this post is somewhere between a rant and a plea for help..Let me give you some specifics. The machine is set up properly and I have been on the customer service line several times-not much help there. I am running 100 and 120 grit belts purchase from Industrial Abrasives in PA (next order goes to Klingspor.) I have tried many different belt speeds across the platen, nothing seems to make a difference. Cut depth is very light at 1/16 on each pass. I have a good Oneida Cyclone dust collection system. Still, it seems I make just a couple passes through the sander and here come the black streaks. What I thought would save me a lot of time from the chore of sanding has not worked well for me.

Any thought from the community? Has anyone out there had actual experience similar to mine and beat it? Your thoughts, and maybe your prayers are requested.

 

[Mike Davis]

Try reducing the depth of cut to 1/32 or even less. 1/16 is a lot to take off with 120 grit paper. Or switch to 40 grit for the first passes to really cut deep like 1/16 inch.

 

[robliles]

Wally,

I, too, have the Woodtech 25" double drum sander. I have had problems with burning particularly on cherry but can get most other species through without a problem. A couple of suggestions. Use Alumina Zirconia belts for sanding. I also use a 100 grit front drum and 120 grit back drum. These blue belts seem to me to cause far less burning. I agree with Mike, reduce your sanding pass to 1/32" or less with these two grits. I take a very light pass each time. It takes more time but I get better results. I'm not sure what to suggest for feed rate. I use a moderate (about half way on the speed dial) rate. Too slow and you increase the heat build up, too fast and you overload the machine. I really love this machine for the flat finish I can get on panels, etc. It can be a little frustrating with burning and a belt tearing shortly after installing but otherwise I have had good experiences with it.

Rob Liles

 

[FredP]

I have the same sander. 1/16 is way too much. I use 80 and 120 grit and only take off 1/64 or so each pass. Slow the feed down as well. Cherry maple and most exotics will burn some on any drum sander. Drums get hot.

 

[Berta]

I have the old Delta one belt. And I agree 1/32 is the most. Just enough to start the sanding. Also, very light touches throughout the entire process.

 

[JohnW]

I had same issue when I first used my drum sander. I was taking a very small bite but still got burning. Someone suggested I speed up my feed rate. That made a big difference. I was going slow thinking it would help take pressure on the belt and drum lessen or eliminate burning. Turns out you can go too slow.

 

[Skymaster]

+1 on all above i have a 22-44 1/64 per pass anything else burn baby burn

 

[Chris C]

+1 on all above i have a 22-44 1/64 per pass anything else burn baby burn

+2....I have a 22-44 also

 

[frankc4113]

When you're feeding narrower stock through machine, prior to putting it through, place it on an angle so that you use the entire sanding drum on the machine and not just a couple inches or so. That drum gets hot so if you can spread the job so to use the entire 25" or whatever the size of the drum is, you then spread the heat over the entire drum.
Also, taking the smallest sanding cut goes a long way in preserving the entire machine and saving costs on sandpaper. That stuff isn't cheap.
In addition, much of the stock you feed through the machine may vary ever so slightly so what can start out as 3/4" stock, may very well become 13/16" as it goes through so that the initial 1/32" or so you want to initially remove, now becomes 2 or 3 times that amount.

 

[ehpoole]

For woods that are prone to burning you will want slower speeds and shallower cuts to greatly reduce the heat buildup during sanding and that cut depth decreases as the grit number increases. Removing 1/16” at 120-grit feels awfully aggressive to me and it is likely to generate a considerable amount of heat. One does not ordinarily use sanding drums/belts for major dimensioning changes as that is what thickness planers are for.

As also mentioned above, placing narrower pieces on a diagonal also helps to reduce heat buildup as then for a given section of your belt the narrower pass dimensions means that section of belt spends less time trapped between the belt and wood and so has both less time to heat up and more time to shed heat.

But you will still want to dial back on the aggressive cut depths when using higher grits. If you need major dimensioning changes and can not use a thickness planer then either make more shallower passes at your 120-grit or consider using a more aggressive grit like 60-80 grit and that should keep things cooler when combined with slower belt speeds.

Good luck!

 

[PeteStaehling]

As everyone has already said light passes and fast enough but not too fast feed is key. For me DC suction was key as well. Are you sure you are getting good enough suction at the machine? No blockages, major leaks, or anything? Dust buildup on the belt can cause the problem.

 

[walnutjerry]

I have a "Woodmaster" 37" drum sander but the principle is the same. 1/16 is way too heavy a cut for a sander as others have stated. A sander should work in thousandths--------not sixteenths. One full turn with the crank is 1/16 " on my sander------1/8 turn is how I use mine and 2 or 3 passes at the same setting. I also clean the drum with the cleaning stick ever so often to remove the dust the collector does not pickup. I also use a moderate feed rate. Never have the burning problem. 120 grit is usually what I run.

 

[KenOfCary]

Planers are for removing stock and flattening boards - Drum sanders are for finish work - go lightly when using them - as others have said.

 

[wndopdlr]

Clearly I have been taking too heavy a cut. Not sure what one turn of the handle on my machine is equivalent to in depth, but I have always used 1/8 turn of the handle. Need to experiment with less movement of the handle. I may also be feeding the stock too slow, thinking I am going in the right direction with speed over the platen, when in fact I was actually building heat. I do run boards through at an angle for all but the last cut so that I am using the whole length of the roller. Time to change the belts (again) and experiment with some lighter depth of cuts. I may also try some of the blue belts that Klingspor offers and see how that changes things. Thanks to everybody who responded.

Wally

 

[Skymaster]

Usually right on the machine is a data plate, or a stamping in the hand wheel stating what 1 revolution is. My sander is 1 rev equals 1/16, so i go 1/4 turn per pass. also when you are close to final dimension, reverse your pcs and run em thru the SAME setting this will flatten better if your head is slightly out of parallel

 

[wndopdlr]

Thanks Skymaster, but my head has been out of parallel all my life.........that could be a whole other thread.:rotflm:

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

As many have already pointed out, when your drum sander burns the wood, you are taking too heavy of a pass for the sandpaper that you are using.

You can never take a "heavy pass" with a drum sander, but 60 grit paper will allow for faster wood removal than 180 grit paper.

Faster feed rates, take off more wood, generating more heat which leads to more burning.

The planer is really good at removing stock quickly, the drum sander is a different animal, it is WAY slower, but doesn't give you any tear out.

 

[Skymaster]

No sir you are knot, we live in a PARALLEL UNIVERSE :rotflm::rotflm:

 

[shawn]

I recently acquired a 12" woodmaster planer with the sanding drum conversion kit. I have it set up this way as I already have the 25" planer. I have found, as most have already stated, light cuts and high feed rates works very well, even on difficult woods. The variable feed on my woodmaster quit on me, so high is the default. I take less than an 1/8th of a turn on the crank, run pieces at an angle when I can and have great results. Even on highly figured end grain eucalyptus cutting boards. A slow feed heats the drum and the wood surface. You will burn the wood or the belt or both. A higher feed rate will introduce a cool wood surface to help dissipate heat. I've used this technique on wide belt sanders as well with excellent results.
BTW, I have been using harborfreight sanding belts.

 

[shawn]

And, yes, it is a very frustrating tool. It took me quite a few feet of belt to figure it out. Another thing I have found, when running at an angle, I run from right to left. Left to right tends to push the belt off the end of the drum.