Mortise chisel vs. Mortise machine vs. Mortise adpter for drill press

[Westpacx3]

I'm starting my first real project outside frames and boxes..I'm building a nightstand
You folks have given the opinions on marking gauges and that's handled now the fun part.

I chopped a decent mortise the other day and my left hand cramped some. I used a non tapered chisle as that's all I had and it did fine but twisted some, hence the motise chisle design. Seems they run 23.00 to 115 or so for 3/8.

I bored a friend's motise machine that was not thw best brand and spendthrift too much time messing with getting it square where it was welded wrong. It has been returned. Grizzly makes one for 400.00 but I have no idea how often I plan to use it. I will.make 2 more night stands and maybe end tables to replace whats In the living room over time.

Or the kits to adapt the drill press. They can be 150 or so and seem to have their own issues from under powered and under torched to set up to ??? Etc.


My thoughts right now are a decent mortise chisle and just be patient and learn the skill. If I cramp I'll drink mor water and rest. I'm in no hurry.

Thoughts please..

Same photo from the marking gauge thread.

 

[tvrgeek]

When I looked into this before, I concluded the drill press attachments are less than functional. Too much flex in even a big floor standing drill. Mortice machines, or the better ones that work, are expensive and useful for production work to justify the cost. Like $900!

Anyway, I use a mortice chisel. Last few times I did not even rough it out with a Forsner bit as even with a fence, I had difficulty keeping the bit dead on. ( Arts and crafts table with 16 staves, 46 mortices in total. ) As I cut my mortice first, I made up a jig like Sellers mentions to help keep my sides strait. Made it 1/4 offset as most mortices are in 3/4 stock. If your hand is cramping, you must be using too much force and if going skew, probably hitting it too hard and trying for too big a chunk. Just my experience so take it with a shovel of salt. With the mortice first, I can then trim my tenon with a 1/32 or so shoulder to hide any issues and plane to fit snug.

Quite a few folks use a router and gig to cut the mortice. Some square up the ends, some round over the tenon. If I did another table with 46 mortices again, I might go that route.

I have old Marples chisels, circa the 70's so not bad quality, but not perfectlly square, as in a parallelogram. One of these days I'll buy a new 1/4 one that is better. Not many companies make them. Some are slightly tapered intentionally which kind of defeats the purpose I think. There are some You-Tube videos that discuss this. Smart to buy the one or two sizes you use. In my set of 5, I think I use two.

Like most things, there are 100 ways to do it. 99 of them work so pick one of them and practice it.

 

[Martin Roper]

I've gone over to the dark side.

 

[demondeacon]

I use a jig, a plunge router and an outrigger on each side. I do not square off the ends as it is not really necessary and strikes me as OCD

 

[mdbuntyn]

You can make mortises with a router, if you have one.

 

[Rwe2156]

If I didn't have both a floor mortiser and a horizontal mortiser I would do floating tenons using a router and jig. It is a very accurate way to do tenons.

That said, doing them by hand is fairly quick. The issue is keeping the walls parallel to the sides. A guide block can help.

On a drill press I would use a Forstner bit and a chisel to pare the walls. I wouldn't waste my money on a DP attachment, but some people use them successfully. I believe a DP is not designed for a lot of downforce, so if you have a less expensive or light weight model I wouldn't do it.

The key to a well fitting MT joint is parallel mortise walls. And don't forget the tenons. Sawing them by hand and faring them takes a lot of practice. The best tool for dialing in a tenon is a router plane. I've pretty much gone to a dado stack to do tenons. If you're careful you can dial them in right off the saw, or use a router plane.

 

[smallboat]

I don’t do serious furniture so my mortises are few and far between. When I do need them I enjoy the mortise chisel. Paul Sellers has a good video on a technique that has served me well. If I had to do a bunch I’d probably invest in a machine but for occasional, no time pressure stuff, hand work is satisfying.

The process of marking out requires you to really think through what you’re trying to do. could be a blessing or a curse.

 

[Westpacx3]

When I looked into this before, I concluded the drill press attachments are less than functional. Too much flex in even a big floor standing drill. Mortice machines, or the better ones that work, are expensive and useful for production work to justify the cost. Like $900!

Anyway, I use a mortice chisel. Last few times I did not even rough it out with a Forsner bit as even with a fence, I had difficulty keeping the bit dead on. ( Arts and crafts table with 16 staves, 46 mortices in total. ) As I cut my mortice first, I made up a jig like Sellers mentions to help keep my sides strait. Made it 1/4 offset as most mortices are in 3/4 stock. If your hand is cramping, you must be using too much force and if going skew, probably hitting it too hard and trying for too big a chunk. Just my experience so take it with a shovel of salt. With the mortice first, I can then trim my tenon with a 1/32 or so shoulder to hide any issues and plane to fit snug.

Quite a few folks use a router and gig to cut the mortice. Some square up the ends, some round over the tenon. If I did another table with 46 mortices again, I might go that route.

I have old Marples chisels, circa the 70's so not bad quality, but not perfectlly square, as in a parallelogram. One of these days I'll buy a new 1/4 one that is better. Not many companies make them. Some are slightly tapered intentionally which kind of defeats the purpose I think. There are some You-Tube videos that discuss this. Smart to buy the one or two sizes you use. In my set of 5, I think I use two.

Like most things, there are 100 ways to do it. 99 of them work so pick one of them and practice it.

Pretty much what I was seeing on the kits as well. Knowing you seem to come from an engineering background no salt is needed with the opinions given. I had forgotten about sellers jig thing and I was probably hitting too hard as well. I also have a tendency to over grip everything. It's one reason I gave up golf.

Thanks

 

[Westpacx3]

If I didn't have both a floor mortiser and a horizontal mortiser I would do floating tenons using a router and jig. It is a very accurate way to do tenons.

That said, doing them by hand is fairly quick. The issue is keeping the walls parallel to the sides. A guide block can help.

On a drill press I would use a Forstner bit and a chisel to pare the walls. I wouldn't waste my money on a DP attachment, but some people use them successfully. I believe a DP is not designed for a lot of downforce, so if you have a less expensive or light weight model I wouldn't do it.

The key to a well fitting MT joint is parallel mortise walls. And don't forget the tenons. Sawing them by hand and faring them takes a lot of practice. The best tool for dialing in a tenon is a router plane. I've pretty much gone to a dado stack to do tenons. If you're careful you can dial them in right off the saw, or use a router plane.

Thanks, I saw a few posts the other day about router planes. I was given a tenon jig and got it squared up yesterday so I hopento use it now. I'm trying not to be to cheap on stuff but get enough quality to learn the skill and upgrade later if I continue in the process. I also can not gonso big that my wife decides she can go shop now. Lol

 

[Westpacx3]

I don’t do serious furniture so my mortises are few and far between. When I do need them I enjoy the mortise chisel. Paul Sellers has a good video on a technique that has served me well. If I had to do a bunch I’d probably invest in a machine but for occasional, no time pressure stuff, hand work is satisfying.

The process of marking out requires you to really think through what you’re trying to do. could be a blessing or a curse.

I did like thw satisfaction of making thos practice pieces.

Whose moritse chisle are you using??

Narex seems to be the brand these days if not Lee valley at mid range and LN at the top end or so it seems

 

[Melinapex]

I had a bench top machine for years but got rid of it as it was fiddly and hard to keep things lined up. Probably mostly me…. But i also ended up using Paul Sellers method for a while and eventually bought a set of Narex mortise chisels. Switched to Cosman’s method as the Narex have get slightly narrower as the steel gets closer to the handle, so using Sellers guide would result in an out of square mortise….
I just enjoy doing them by hand and since I am not in a hurry, I can take all the time I want. Problem is, it is like landing an airplane….. I did it really great once or twice in my life, but all the rest were just OK, and some needed A do-over!
and I use the router plane to fit the tenons once the mortises are done.

 

[Westpacx3]

I had a bench top machine for years but got rid of it as it was fiddly and hard to keep things lined up. Probably mostly me…. But i also ended up using Paul Sellers method for a while and eventually bought a set of Narex mortise chisels. Switched to Cosman’s method as the Narex have get slightly narrower as the steel gets closer to the handle, so using Sellers guide would result in an out of square mortise….
I just enjoy doing them by hand and since I am not in a hurry, I can take all the time I want. Problem is, it is like landing an airplane….. I did it really great once or twice in my life, but all the rest were just OK, and some needed A do-over!
and I use the router plane to fit the tenons once the mortises are done.

Thanks, cosman is fairly pricey but I'm not sure the differences. Some talk about better steel.

As for landings, never did one. I did get a shot in an A6 simulator and crashed it from 10000 ft.

 

[Wilsoncb]

A router fixture works just fine for the mortise. The harder part is getting the tenons just right consistently. I’ve handled the rounded corners both ways, rounding the tenons or mortise. I think it’s just a preference, rounding the tenon is probably easier. Squaring the mortise takes more time but is probably more satisfying. The Narex 3/8 mortise chisel is good, as long as you have a 3/8 or bigger mortise. Long term you probably need a 1/4” as well. I’ve bent a standard 1/4” chisel trying to do a mortise that was less than 3/8…since I only have a 3/8”.

I’ve since got a great deal on a Leigh M&T fixture. It’s very precise and helps to dial in the joints consistently once it’s dialed in. The retail price of the unit is not justified, but if you can get a good deal on a used one it’s better than a dedicated mortise machine since it does both M&T.

FMT Pro | Leigh FMT Pro Mortise Tenon Jig Leigh FMT Pro

Leigh FMT Pro mortise tenon jig, bringing professional quality mortise tenon joinery to every. woodworking project with the FMT Pro.

www.leightools.com

 

[bob vaughan]

I once had a bench top hollow chisel mortiser that worked better than a drill press rig and the drill press rigs I was using were on the older USA-made presses. Keep an eye out for a used one. It is the Delta model 14-600 made in England by Multico that came out in 1991. Multico made some really nice ones back in the day. Delta eventually went to stuff from across the Pacific. Those weren't much (and I'm being generously polite) and equal to what the others are.

I don't know of anyone these days offering a good hollow chisel mortiser.

The old cast iron floor models are great if you can find one. I've got an Oliver 194D and love it. As old-school floor model models go, its a tiny lightweight at 600 lbs. Having one is a commitment of time and effort and storage space. The up side is that I can do the below mortises in a few hours including set up time. It could go faster if I had one of the big industrial models with the power downfeed rather than a foot feed that wears out my old leg rather quickly.

Point being: doing the mortises by hand has its advantages in simplicity and resources.

 

[JimD]

I've done mortise and tenons with a benchtop mortiser and with a plunge router and I now do them with a domino. I am not even close to patient enough to use a chisel. But I think I drilled out most of the waste and chiseled one or two. That makes a mortise like I got with the benchtop mortiser, functional but not terribly accurate. I got really nice mortises with the plunge router and a upcut spiral bit but it was slow. And routers are noisy. But it works and doesn't cost nearly as much as a domino. The domino makes equally nice mortises and is quick. But expensive.

If you cut tenons integral to the pieces I would use a table saw with a jig whenever possible but I found it hard to get a good fit consistently largely due to small thickness variations in my stock. So I needed a shoulder plane and I still didn't always get a perfect fit. But I could make them work. Loose tenons are SO much easier to fit but it's hard to make mortises in long pieces with a plunge router. Sometimes it would be possible (like on doors for cabinets).

 

[Westpacx3]

I once had a bench top hollow chisel mortiser that worked better than a drill press rig and the drill press rigs I was using were on the older USA-made presses. Keep an eye out for a used one. It is the Delta model 14-600 made in England by Multico that came out in 1991. Multico made some really nice ones back in the day. Delta eventually went to stuff from across the Pacific. Those weren't much (and I'm being generously polite) and equal to what the others are.

I don't know of anyone these days offering a good hollow chisel mortiser.

The old cast iron floor models are great if you can find one. I've got an Oliver 194D and love it. As old-school floor model models go, its a tiny lightweight at 600 lbs. Having one is a commitment of time and effort and storage space. The up side is that I can do the below mortises in a few hours including set up time. It could go faster if I had one of the big industrial models with the power downfeed rather than a foot feed that wears out my old leg rather quickly.

Point being: doing the mortises by hand has its advantages in simplicity and resources.



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What a beast. Funny seeing that 1991 and older in the same sentence. My daughter mentioned back in the 90s once like it was way back old. She was born in 90.
I'll do it by hand for now and possible wait for a used one. My uncle had a jet table top one. Not sure if it's any good but he took it to Florida when he moved however he did sell me a lot of nice tools that helped me get involved here.

 

[Darl Bundren]

I use a jig, a plunge router and an outrigger on each side. I do not square off the ends as it is not really necessary and strikes me as OCD

Before I got my Domino, I used a plunge router and made a jig to keep it centered on the stock. To accept tenons, you can also square off the mortise ends with a chisel or round the tenons a bit to fit.

 

[BKHam]

I think you can find benchtop hollow chisel mortisers on Craigslist for under $200 quite frequently.

 

[Fishinmike]

I gave $50 for my Jet benchtop mortiser at a yard sale. Works great after a little cleaning.

 

[Westpacx3]

I gave $50 for my Jet benchtop mortiser at a yard sale. Works great after a little cleaning.

That's the same as my uncle took too Florida when he moved. He picked it up for 75 a few years ago.