Maybe the worst router circle-jig ever

[merrill77]

I hate to post a negative review...as I usually think I must be using the product incorrectly. This time, however, I have no doubts.

I received a MLCS Marvel 40 3-in-1 router kit for Christmas. I needed to rout a large circular inset today, so I got out the Marvel. Before I go on, I have 3 other routers and 2 circle jigs - both of which I have used successfully (a home-made jig for a Craftsman router and the jig that comes with the Triton). So yes, I know how to make one of these work.

However, I cannot see a way to make this one work effectively. I attribute this to 3 serious flaws in this design:

1. The router base is flimsy. As you can see in the picture, the router is only supported by one piece of relatively light-weight stamped metal. This support can flex during use, allowing the router bit to move horizontally relative to the base.
2. Where the router base connects to the beam, there is significant play - allowing the effective radius to change depending on the direction you apply force as you go around the circle.
3. If you attempt to compensate for the above flaw by ensuring you apply constant outward force as you go around the circle, you will be pleased to find that the router base can rotate - which allows you to hold onto the handle all the away around. This, however, reveals the 3rd flaw - the base does not center the bit relative to the router, so as you turn the router in the base, it moves off-center.

I'm guessing it is hard to visualize the above. The picture below illustrates a little of it...as well as the results. It would take a video to illustrate the flaws fully, and this poor excuse for a circle jig just isn't worth the effort.

This router comes with several bases, and the others seem to work a lot better...they are certainly better built and sturdier. So I will reserve judgement on the rest of the kit until I get time to better evaluate it. If you are considering this kit and the circle-cutting feature is part of your reasoning, I cannot recommend this kit. If you buy this kit for other reasons, I recommend throwing the circle-jig parts in the trash...I did.

 

[Gotcha6]

The circle jig you have is identical to the one I have for my Roto-Zip, the predecessor to this tool. They are made primarily for cutting circles to install such items as recessed lights, pancake wiring boxes, etc. Most of these items usually have a flanged trim kit so the circle accuracy doesn't come into play. The small (1/8" dia.) cutters will flex under load in dense materials as well. I have used one for over 12 years with good success on ceiling tiles, drywall, 1/4 & 3/8 " PW, and laminate tops. Part of the trick to getting a true circle from the jig is to use the knob opposite the cutter to help turn the jig. And yes, the router does not run true to the center, so I avoid rotating the router within the jig bracket.
I do not rely on this tool for spot on accuracy in cutting holes but for the aforementioned tasks it is invaluable. Perhaps just a case of an inappropriate use. If you want a true and accurate circle I recommend the use of a full sized router with MORE POWER and a larger bit.

 

[merrill77]

Perhaps just a case of an inappropriate use. If you want a true and accurate circle I recommend the use of a full sized router with MORE POWER and a larger bit.

Perhaps. Power did not seem to be the issue and I started out taking very slow, light passes - 1/8". It is sold by a woodworking company and the videos on their site show it being used on real wood, rather than drywall or the particle-board I was cutting. Now you have me curious. I'll have to try throwing something together to work with one of their other bases, which both appear much sturdier, to see if there is any difference. If not, then the power or the bit could be the factor.

 

[Ray Martin]

Chris,

While you say that you don't care to post negative reviews, it's still good to express your thoughts. If the device is flawed, it's nice to know before we make the mistake of purchasing one. It's also good to know if it's a case of using the wrong tool, or having the wrong technique... or even a misleading ad. Your experience can help the rest of us.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

 

[SubGuy]

Chris,

While you say that you don't care to post negative reviews, it's still good to express your thoughts. If the device is flawed, it's nice to know before we make the mistake of purchasing one. It's also good to know if it's a case of using the wrong tool, or having the wrong technique... or even a misleading ad. Your experience can help the rest of us.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

+1

 

[Gotcha6]

Be sure you have a bit for use in PB. Keep bit length out of the collet to the work as short as possible to avoid flex. Keep the cut clear of chips to avoid heat buildup. Start in a pilot hole. Forcing the cutter will break the bit. Rotate cutter clockwise. That's about all I can tell you.

 

[Travis Porter]

That does look pretty bad.

Reviews should be good when good and bad when bad, and I see this one as bad. That is one item I will not be purchasing.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Dragon]

I think Dennis is spot on in his assessment. Might be a case of wrong tool for the job at hand. I bought a Roto-Zip a few years back to cut some circles and found it was definitely NOT the right tool for what I had in mind. For the task for which it and others like it are/were designed, they're great. For accuracy and repeatability of precise cuts, best get a "real" router and suitable bit. Once I did that, problem solved and many projects completed with no hassles.

 

[DaveD]

The other problem is that big awkward handle too high up and in the wrong position. You are going to have a natural tendency to tip the router and the handle is in an unnatural place. I'd set it perpendicular to the direction of travel.

If it was me, I'd grab the router near the base with my hand and pull that way. However that router is sticking pretty high up from the jig base so it might be a dangerous way to do it. Too easy to get part of your hand/finger in where the collet is spinning.

I'll agree that is one cheap/lousy design for a circle jig.

 

[FlyingRon]

I've got a RotoZip and it looks a lot less unwieldy than that thing and the circle cutter while similar in design is more substantial (and mounts to the tool better) than the one shown.

But what I found at the borgs for cutting light fixture holes is a specialty fly cutter like thing that is designed for that and mounts in the drill. It will cut acoustic ceiling tiles and drywall (and even plastic bead board) OK. Not substantial enough to cut into wood however.

 

[merrill77]

In a previous response, Gotca6 indicated that the bit or the power of the router may be the problem, and that I'm simply asking too much from this tool.

So I built the simplest possible router circle jig: a stick with a nail and a hole. I attached this to the router's acrylic base using a mounting screw that is provided for one of the other attachments. The setup is still a bit flimsy, and the first pass was a little uneven. Note that the acrylic base is not at all flimsy - just the way my stick is mounted. I refined my technique and the 2nd and 3rd passes were smooth, even and, best as I can tell, perfectly round. See picture below.

So my conclusion is that while the MLCS Marvel circle jig may not be the worst circle jig ever, it is considerably worse than a stick with a nail and a hole. I stand by my original assessment. Granted, it is easier to adjust the diameter on the MLCS version...but I'm not sure it is even important, if the circle jig doesn't make a circle. Oh, and for the sake of completeness, I was using a 1/8" solid carbide spiral down cut bit. I realize this is intended for inlay work...it was the only 1/4" bit I have that is suitable for the task. Since it worked fine in solid oak, I firmly believe that it should have worked at least as well in laminated particle board.

 

[Gotcha6]

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up
Try I on the BP w/ laminate. I want to see what it does. BTW, I've never seen a solid carbide bit for this tool in the 1/8" size. Is it just a regular router bit, or one of the left hand spiral bits made for these tools? I believe you implied it has a 1/4 " shank to it so I assume it is the former. Inquiring minds want to know.......

 

[merrill77]

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up
Try I on the BP w/ laminate. I want to see what it does. BTW, I've never seen a solid carbide bit for this tool in the 1/8" size. Is it just a regular router bit, or one of the left hand spiral bits made for these tools? I believe you implied it has a 1/4 " shank to it so I assume it is the former. Inquiring minds want to know.......

I'd like to try that, but I don't have any scrap of the same stuff I tried originally.

This is the bit I used: http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=1633

Chris

 

[Gotcha6]

Is that the same bit you used in the first setup? I like the fact that the upper shank is 1/4" and that it's solid carbide. That makes it more rigid and less prone to flex.

 

[merrill77]

Is that the same bit you used in the first setup?

Yes it is.

 

[Gotcha6]

Thanks for the heads up on the jig.:eusa_clap I guess I won't be using my Roto Zip to do inlay work.:thumbs_do:thumbs_do

 

[cpowell]

...So my conclusion is that while the MLCS Marvel circle jig may not be the worst circle jig ever, it is considerably worse than a stick with a nail and a hole...

Pretty funny! :gar-La;

Sig line, anyone?


Chuck

 

[Travis Porter]

So my conclusion is that while the MLCS Marvel circle jig may not be the worst circle jig ever, it is considerably worse than a stick with a nail and a hole.

TOO FUNNY!!!!! You had me convinced with the original posting. I can sincerely attest that I will NEVER buy, trade, or use this jig!

 

[Dean Maiorano]

JUST A THOUGHT...

I understand that you had good luck using the nail and board jig but there are still finesse issues that may be more of a factor the larger the diameter of the circle to be cut.

I wonder if using some kind of 'backing' setup will help? A piece of sacrificial material mounted to the 'bottom' side joined to the material to be cut with a paper thin double stick tape? Medium duty tape that allows for fairly easy removal from the underside once you're done. Mechanical fastening might be an option too (if the 'bottom' side is not seen or it's a material difficult to get tape to stick too). That way you rout deep enough to go just through your material to be cut and the circle cutout will remain attached to something rigid during, and through to the end, of the process.

Of course, a vacuum table set up would help hold the material also, and if it's set up with some kind of sacrificial material you have some leeway on the rout through depth (if it's not set up with sacrificial material you could go to a depth that leaves a paper thin remainder that can be cut easily with an X-ACTO knife, etc.).

Onsrud Cutter makes 1/8" solid carbide wood routing bits. There's also the option of end mills, they come in up/down spirals and they do an adequate job on wood, laminates, etc.

I need to thank you for posting this also. Regardless of it being a 'bad' review, your post has brought up an issue, with circle routing jigs in general, that needs to be addressed prior to their use.

 

[merrill77]

JUST A THOUGHT...

I understand that you had good luck using the nail and board jig but there are still finesse issues that may be more of a factor the larger the diameter of the circle to be cut.

I wonder if using some kind of 'backing' setup will help? A piece of sacrificial material mounted to the 'bottom' side joined to the material to be cut with a paper thin double stick tape? Medium duty tape that allows for fairly easy removal from the underside once you're done. Mechanical fastening might be an option too (if the 'bottom' side is not seen or it's a material difficult to get tape to stick too). That way you rout deep enough to go just through your material to be cut and the circle cutout will remain attached to something rigid during, and through to the end, of the process.

I didn't mean to imply a stick with a nail and a hole is a good circle jig! Just better than the other one :wsmile:

Note that I wasn't cutting all the way though - I was routing a round inset. Keeping the cut-out from moving was not part of the problem. But if I were, then I would certainly need to keep it from moving - probably with double-stick tape.