Labor Rate Question

[TenguWoodwork]

Hi everyone,
I'm building a display case/gun cabinet for a friend. Materials are going to be about $500 dollars (it includes some large tempered glass panels and a mirror). Add in driving from Durham to NC Hardwood for materials, and probably a drive to Fayetteville for delivery. What would be a fair rate to charge? I'd say this is slightly over the "doing him a favor" mark, but not business rate I'd charge a stranger. I guess I don't want to undersell myself in the research & design phase.
Thanks again everyone!

 

[jaustin]

I usually try 3 times cost, then I might discount it some for friends.

 

[Bas]

If you do charge a "friendship" rate, make sure your client knows that. Otherwise, your client will provide you with other customers that expect the same rate...

 

[Trent Mason]

If you do charge a "friendship" rate, make sure your client knows that. Otherwise, your client will provide you with other customers that expect the same rate...

+1.

Most of the folks I've done work for in any capacity have been family and friends. Normally, for them, I charge them for materials up front, then give them a lump sum figure for labor. Usually, it works out to where I'm not making that much per hour, but they are friends/family.

On the other hand, for a stranger, I'll charge them for materials up front, then quote them an hourly labor rate, with labor being due upon completion/delivery. If it is something I feel experienced at/comfortable about doing (little or no time for R&D required), I'll usually charge them $25 per hour. If it is something that I will have to research a lot, I'll charge them a little less (~$20/hour). To me that just seems right to save them a little bit of money to make up for my lack of experience/knowledge pertaining to that specific project. If it is something that I really don't know much about, I'll do the R&D for free since it may take several hours.

This is just the way I do it. Others may have different advice. HTH.

 

[Bob Carreiro]

+1 with John. I've gone up to 5 times materieals.
If much travel and R&D time is spent, involve your friend in these activities to reveal the extent of effort. When he sees the invoice, he'll be less prone to sticker shock and will recognize your generosity.
There's another way of looking at this pricing thing: if your going to question your price, make sure it's because you charged too much, and not too little!
Good luck!

 

[bluedawg76]

I usually try 3 times cost, then I might discount it some for friends.

seems a bit low to me when you consider the cost of blades (either new or sharpened) for TS, planer, jointers, BS, router bits, etc. not to mention my "spare" time (which I value). Personally I'd go for about 5-10x the lumber cost, add in the glass materials cost and $50-75 based on your mileage for pick-up and delivery. Price out a comparable piece of furniture using similar materials and I'll bet you're offering a considerable bargain. If your friend doesn't wince at the price, it wasn't high enough !

 

[DaveD]

You didn't talk price before agreeing to build it?
Even for friends I'll say up front.....
1) I'll have to think about it (because I do have to think about it)
then....
2)$xxx to build and finish it
3)$200 to chase material (that figures 2 days chasing material) + cost of gas
4)$150 to deliver it (Raleigh to Fayetteville)
5)$yyy to $zzz for materials and even that could be a little low

or.......
$xxx/hour and I figure its going to take xxx to yyy hours including chasing materials, delivering it, etc. + yyy to zzz for material.

I have found there are different levels of friends and you should price accordingly
friends that horse trade work/activities get best deal, probably minimum wage if that
friends that don't have a clue which end of a tool to hold but are sincere get next best deal
friends that are friends only on paper get going rate+ (and I don't care if I get the job or not)
then there are the 'friends' that want you to beat the Ikea price by 50%

Worst case I ever did was give a price range of $4000 to $6000 and it came in at the high end. I made decent money on it and it led to future jobs (same and different people) where all I do is throw out a range and do the job.

When everybody, including the yard guy is getting $60 or more an hour, I have learned to not give my time away for slave wages no matter who you are.

 

[Mike Davis]

I guess that is why I drive a ten year old car. :dontknow:

 

[junquecol]

I guess that is why I drive a ten year old car. :dontknow:

I wish my car was only ten years old. Mine are 20+ years old. "Drive um till the wheels fall off, then put wheels back on and drive them some more!

 

[merrill77]

I wish my car was only ten years old. Mine are 20+ years old. "Drive um till the wheels fall off, then put wheels back on and drive them some more!

Good cars get better with age. My Jeep just turned 16 - it's finally old enough to drive!!!

:rotflm:

 

[Acelectric]

Good cars get better with age. My Jeep just turned 16 - it's finally old enough to drive!!!

:rotflm:

Good one. My Frontier is only 14, 2 more years to go.

 

[bluedawg76]

Good one. My Frontier is only 14, 2 more years to go.

Ha! My Taurus is 22. I guess it's old enough to legally drink the ethanol-gas!

 

[smallboat]

The low mileage vehicle in our house is 190K, I drive the workhorse @ 319K.
both are '01s.

 

[Jeff]

This sounds harsh and cold-blooded but I'd charge a flat rate to any customer, friend or stranger. Immediate family is different so it may be major raw materials or zero just for the fun, challenge, and experience.

The former is clean and impartial business in pure form. Don't price gouge but be fair to yourself and what you expect for your expertise and effort.

The customer can take it or leave it without debate. Most will take it if they feel that you're being fair and up-front in your dealings with them and they know the quality of your work.

Invoicing can be a sticky wicket with too much detail. So it took 25 bf instead of 20 bf and took 8 hours instead of 6 hours? You may or may not eat that depending upon the reasons. How about if the customer picks up the piece at your shop?

 

[thsb]

In terms of charging friends, i agree with the idea that there are different levels of friendship. And compensation comes in many forms. I did a table top that was fairly easy but took some wood and some time and i just got a bottle of scotch for it. thought that was a great deal.

other things i do for free or as gifts. being the person that made someone's house better and has their appreciation is worth more to me than the money, but i am also in a good financial position ( which could change at any time ).

All of that to say, money is the easiest measurable related to what we get for doing something, and is often a necessary component, but it is not the only way we receive compensation.

To answer the original question more specifically, I think you have to decide what you would want to do for this person for free and then charge a fair rate on all the other time you spend. not sure the research time should be considered much.

 

[TenguWoodwork]

If you do charge a "friendship" rate, make sure your client knows that. Otherwise, your client will provide you with other customers that expect the same rate...

He's aware that this is more of a "gift" than a true business transaction, but I'll make sure to reiterate the later part.
Thanks for the input.

Thank you to everyone else for your input as well. You guys are awesome!